Official CU Head Coach Search Thread - Primetime

[Creebuzz]

The media (and the coaches when interviewed anonymously) have repeatedly stated that the problem with CU is that it “lacks a commitment to winning in football”. I’ve heard it over and over again.The leadership is the problem.

And if you believe that the leadership is the problem, hiring a guy like Mendehall isn’t going to create a meaningful change. Mendenhall is a very capable coach, and wouldn’t be a bad hire by any means, but the guy makes his living off doing more with less. All of his statements scream, “Give me chicken sh!t and I’ll make chicken salad”. I think he can do that to some degree, and stabilize the program, but if you think Mendehall is some agent of change, you are reading him way differently than I.

In my opinion, Grimes has the more commanding personality and more likely to charge up that hill.

But it’s all opinions and guesswork, so I respect the fact that others have a different read on the situation.

 

[Creebuzz]

Yes, and a guy who has spent his entire HC career at places with similar issues as CU is all of the sudden going to come in and demand changes? If anything, hiring BM would signal that they want a coach who is experienced in doing well with those restrictions in place. Hiring a guy like Grimes would signal that they are ready to put their big boy pants on and do what’s necessary.

You and I are aligned in how we see things apparently. Almost the exact same post.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Auburn coaches have all the infrastructure to succeed. It's more about being someone who will allow boosters to have considerable influence on your recruiting and program. They thrive, at least for a bit, with coaches who are willing to not be in charge.

CU is the opposite situation. When our HC isn't the biggest figure on campus, the meddling (and the quiet acceptance of neglect) has been to the severe detriment of the program. We need a HC who says "This is how I do things and what I need" and will define how CU operates for football. To the point where he would be a major voice in picking the next AD if that occurs.

See my previous post to NYC. Do you think Mel Tucker was that assertive guy who tried telling RG what he needed or no?

 

[married2abuff]

It seems like just about every name being throw around is better than what we've had, with the exception of Sanford. Sanford would be decent recruiter with a solid HC above him, that's about it.

 

[Buffnik]

I think the disconnect is that many CU fans believe that all it takes is a savior coach and that this force of nature will make CU transform its organizational culture into something that's not CU.

Others of us believe that CU is what it is, so change will be slow, baby steps, and within limits. Within this view, it takes someone who can succeed to at least a competitive & bowl appearance program in the short term while steering changes which are perceived as reasonable and aren't too disruptive or uncomfortable for the folks in charge.

We're building almost an entirely new blueprint and I think it takes someone like Bronco (Rhule and especially Petersen even higher level in that mold). Bronco, to me, is all the reasons MacIntyre and Dorrell were hired but he's legitimately the real deal on bringing a successful blueprint to every aspect of running a program and being a HC.

 

[Buffnik]

See my previous post to NYC. Do you think Mel Tucker was that assertive guy who tried telling RG what he needed or no?

I think he tried exactly that. Doomed to fail because he wanted CU to be like Georgia or Alabama in how it ran its organization... and that's never going to happen. RG made promises on which he couldn't deliver. Doomed to fail, in retrospect, and the realization of that is what broke RG.

 

[Not Sure]

Grimes would probably be a good choice at Auburn. He can do whatever he needs to do there. He wouldn’t be given that leeway here. I’m not saying he’s a bad coach, just that he wouldn’t succeed here, now. Maybe if some changes are made at the institutional level, but not now. He’d just be another in a long line of failures if he were hired here now.

 

[Creebuzz]

I think the disconnect is that many CU fans believe that all it takes is a savior coach and that this force of nature will make CU transform its organizational culture into something that's not CU.

Others of us believe that CU is what it is, so change will be slow, baby steps, and within limits. Within this view, it takes someone who can succeed to at least a competitive & bowl appearance program in the short term while steering changes which are perceived as reasonable and aren't too disruptive or uncomfortable for the folks in charge.

We're building almost an entirely new blueprint and I think it takes someone like Bronco (Rhule and especially Petersen even higher level in that mold). Bronco, to me, is all the reasons MacIntyre and Dorrell were hired but he's legitimately the real deal on bringing a successful blueprint to every aspect of running a program and being a HC.

I certainly don’t believe in the savior coach concept. It’s definitely an organizational issue with CU. There is no reason for CU to be this bad at football when you have a program like K-State consistently winning with literally zero inherent advantages over CU.

Our leadership is terrible.

Conceptually, I think CU has tried both models with Tucker and Hawkins on one side, and MacIntyre and Dorrell on the other.

Grimes has been at CU, knows the challenges, and I see no reason why he can’t build a program back, with potentially higher upside.

As far as being an agent of institutional change, I don’t see any clear evidence that Mendenhall is that person. He didn’t materially impact UVA other than being a solid if not spectacular coach.

 

[ahoelsken]

I think the disconnect is that many CU fans believe that all it takes is a savior coach and that this force of nature will make CU transform its organizational culture into something that's not CU.

Others of us believe that CU is what it is, so change will be slow, baby steps, and within limits. Within this view, it takes someone who can succeed to at least a competitive & bowl appearance program in the short term while steering changes which are perceived as reasonable and aren't too disruptive or uncomfortable for the folks in charge.

We're building almost an entirely new blueprint and I think it takes someone like Bronco (Rhule and especially Petersen even higher level in that mold). Bronco, to me, is all the reasons MacIntyre and Dorrell were hired but he's legitimately the real deal on bringing a successful blueprint to every aspect of running a program and being a HC.

To add to that-Bronco's stint at UVA makes him really attractive to me as a candidate. UVA is on the academic level Phil and the other goobers up there think CU is, and he had them in bowl eligible in every year but the first one.

 

[leftybuff]

To add to that-Bronco's stint at UVA makes him really attractive to me as a candidate. UVA is on the academic level Phil and the other goobers up there think CU is, and he had them in bowl eligible in every year but the first one.

...and then he quit on them.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I think the disconnect is that many CU fans believe that all it takes is a savior coach and that this force of nature will make CU transform its organizational culture into something that's not CU.

Others of us believe that CU is what it is, so change will be slow, baby steps, and within limits. Within this view, it takes someone who can succeed to at least a competitive & bowl appearance program in the short term while steering changes which are perceived as reasonable and aren't too disruptive or uncomfortable for the folks in charge.

We're building almost an entirely new blueprint and I think it takes someone like Bronco (Rhule and especially Petersen even higher level in that mold). Bronco, to me, is all the reasons MacIntyre and Dorrell were hired but he's legitimately the real deal on bringing a successful blueprint to every aspect of running a program and being a HC.

I just think it's flawed logic. Rick George and Todd Saliman (DiStefano as well if he actually has any input at this point) either want CU to be a winning program or they are fine with the status quo of operating within the self imposed restrictions. If they want a winning program, they are going to remove the transfer requirements, provide a larger budget, etc and then they are going to hire a coach they believe can get the program winning again. If they want status quo, they are going to hire someone who has shown the ability to do more with less and who isn't going to rock the boat and challenge them on these restrictions.

Pick one of those two scenarios that you believe is going to play out, because there isn't really a third. They aren't going to maintain status quo, or simply dip their toes in the water of maybe thinking about wanting to compete, and then hire a guy who is going to challenge them to make changes. This is the hire that they are either going to allow the football program to succeed, or they are going to maintain bottom feeder status.

 

[slider]

...and then he quit on them.

If he coaches us for 6 years with 5 straight bowl games I would gladly allow him to quit on us

 

[Buffnik]

I just think it's flawed logic. Rick George and Todd Saliman (DiStefano as well if he actually has any input at this point) either want CU to be a winning program or they are fine with the status quo of operating within the self imposed restrictions. If they want a winning program, they are going to remove the transfer requirements, provide a larger budget, etc and then they are going to hire a coach they believe can get the program winning again. If they want status quo, they are going to hire someone who has shown the ability to do more with less and who isn't going to rock the boat and challenge them on these restrictions.

Pick one of those two scenarios that you believe is going to play out, because there isn't really a third. They aren't going to maintain status quo, or simply dip their toes in the water of maybe thinking about wanting to compete, and then hire a guy who is going to challenge them to make changes. This is the hire that they are either going to allow the football program to succeed, or they are going to maintain bottom feeder status.

Even with those changes, CU won't loosen things beyond a Notre Dame level with admissions and expectations for student athletes. Urban refused to go there and Kelley left because of the restrictive challenges they don't face at a Florida, Ohio State or LSU. We need a coach who will work within that instead of chafing at it with 1 foot out the door. There will always be players Oregon State can take which CU won't.

 

[Creebuzz]

Even with those changes, CU won't loosen things beyond a Notre Dame level with admissions and expectations for student athletes. Urban refused to go there and Kelley left because of the restrictive challenges they don't face at a Florida, Ohio State or LSU. We need a coach who will work within that instead of chafing at it with 1 foot out the door. There will always be players Oregon State can take which CU won't.

Where is this written?

 

[leftybuff]

Where is this written?

On a post it note in Rejzohn Wright's locker....

 

[Buffnik]

Where is this written?

I don't believe CU will ever allow a FB culture like was here pre-2003. So we need a new paradigm for the program which works within what CU is and the values & standards it believes in. If I'm wrong, then I concede the entire argument on what type of hire we should be looking to make.

 

[DBT]

I disagree on Mendenhall. He has 17 years of respectable HC experience. He would have a lot more pull than Grimes for example

I sort of worry about the burnout factor. He was obviously feeling burned out. Would he bring the energy necessary to pull a program from the ashes?

 

[Creebuzz]

I don't believe CU will ever allow a FB culture like was here pre-2003. So we need a new paradigm for the program which works within what CU is and the values & standards it believes in. If I'm wrong, then I concede the entire argument on what type of hire we should be looking to make.

Oregon State has had some recruiting violations over the years and some players have gotten into trouble, but it’s been about on par with CU. Its not some rogue institution. It’s a STEM focused state school and it’s really not much different than CU.

I just hate the narrative that because things are so now, they will be as they are in perpetuity. Bill McCartney was allowed to compete, why can’t we return to that?

And if we can’t, then the remaining stakeholders need to informed.

 

[lawdogg]

I just think it's flawed logic. Rick George and Todd Saliman (DiStefano as well if he actually has any input at this point) either want CU to be a winning program or they are fine with the status quo of operating within the self imposed restrictions. If they want a winning program, they are going to remove the transfer requirements, provide a larger budget, etc and then they are going to hire a coach they believe can get the program winning again. If they want status quo, they are going to hire someone who has shown the ability to do more with less and who isn't going to rock the boat and challenge them on these restrictions.

Pick one of those two scenarios that you believe is going to play out, because there isn't really a third. They aren't going to maintain status quo, or simply dip their toes in the water of maybe thinking about wanting to compete, and then hire a guy who is going to challenge them to make changes. This is the hire that they are either going to allow the football program to succeed, or they are going to maintain bottom feeder status.

I could be wrong, but I don’t really see Grimes as a swing for the fences hire. I view him much more in the mold of a Mendenhall (understated personality and focus on a developmental program). That’s essentially one paradigm. Another paradigm is to go all in on recruiting, which will require eased transfer limitations and increased NIL involvement. That’s where your Deion’s, Herman’s and the like fit.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Even with those changes, CU won't loosen things beyond a Notre Dame level with admissions and expectations for student athletes. Urban refused to go there and Kelley left because of the restrictive challenges they don't face at a Florida, Ohio State or LSU. We need a coach who will work within that instead of chafing at it with 1 foot out the door. There will always be players Oregon State can take which CU won't.

Kelly left ND and Urban wouldn't go there because they want to win National Championships and they were never going to get that caliber of player across the board there. CU isn't going to compete for National Championships, nor are their general admission standards as restrictive as ND. CU may lose out on a recruit here or there like Rejzohn Wright, but the admission standards are fine.

 

[leftybuff]

I think the disconnect is that many CU fans believe that all it takes is a savior coach and that this force of nature will make CU transform its organizational culture into something that's not CU.

Others of us believe that CU is what it is, so change will be slow, baby steps, and within limits. Within this view, it takes someone who can succeed to at least a competitive & bowl appearance program in the short term while steering changes which are perceived as reasonable and aren't too disruptive or uncomfortable for the folks in charge.

We're building almost an entirely new blueprint and I think it takes someone like Bronco (Rhule and especially Petersen even higher level in that mold). Bronco, to me, is all the reasons MacIntyre and Dorrell were hired but he's legitimately the real deal on bringing a successful blueprint to every aspect of running a program and being a HC.

Is there any reason why fan, donor and alumni engagement should not be slow, in baby steps and within limits?

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I could be wrong, but I don’t really see Grimes as a swing for the fences hire. I view him much more in the mold of a Mendenhall (understated personality and focus on a developmental program). That’s essentially one paradigm. Another paradigm is to go all in on recruiting, which will require eased transfer limitations and increased NIL involvement. That’s where your Deion’s, Herman’s and the like fit.

I view Grimes as a guy in the middle of those paradigms. A guy who has a ton of experience over a long, successful career in many different capacities at many different programs. An elite offensive tactician and playcaller whose success isn't predicated on having top 10 talent in the country, but certainly knows what big time recruiting operations looks like.

He has proven everything he can possibly prove and I view him as the safest hire CU could make from the coordinator pool. As things stand today, I think he has a slightly lower floor than Bronco, simply because he has never been a HC, but he has a MUCH higher ceiling.

IMO, Grimes checks every box, and if CU administration is going to start taking football seriously, Grimes has a chance to make CU a perennial 8-9 win program with 10 wins being very much in the picture most years.

 

[HockeyBuff]

You joke, but agents will absolutely sell that to their clients.

That’s why I think someone like Bronco is appealing. He wants to be in the west, not the SEC part of the country.

 

[HockeyBuff]

I view Grimes as a guy in the middle of those paradigms. A guy who has a ton of experience over a long, successful career in many different capacities at many different programs. An elite offensive tactician and playcaller whose success isn't predicated on having top 10 talent in the country, but certainly knows what big time recruiting operations looks like.

He has proven everything he can possibly prove and I view him as the safest hire CU could make from the coordinator pool. As things stand today, I think he has a slightly lower floor than Bronco, simply because he has never been a HC, but he has a MUCH higher ceiling.

IMO, Grimes checks every box, and if CU administration is going to start taking football seriously, Grimes has a chance to make CU a perennial 8-9 win program with 10 wins being very much in the picture most years.

You make a great case for Grimes. Grimes or Bronco would be great IMO. I really am liking Walters too with what his D is doing.

 

[Creebuzz]

Sadly, this is the national narrative around the CU job:

The search may not be very fruitful though, as some of the reviews coming back concerning the prospects of the job aren’t exactly positive.

According to CBS Sports’ Dennis Dodd, there have been some very harsh realities brought to light about the Colorado job from anonymous outside perspectives.

“The complications are it’s a difficult, complex landscape. It’s different than most people think it is,” one coach familiar with Colorado told CBS Sports.

Another anonymous coach told Dodd that he “wouldn’t wish that job on anybody.”

 

[skibum]

I sort of worry about the burnout factor. He was obviously feeling burned out. Would he bring the energy necessary to pull a program from the ashes?

I'm just going to note that I personally don't believe it was entirely, or even mostly, "burnout."

East coast culture is simply different than the mountain west. Some people don't/ can't/ won't adjust. (Note: this can be interpreted as a judgement on their "worth," but it's not - it just is. Some people have brown hair, others don't. Some people thrive in certain cultures/geographies, others do in different ones.)

His entire departure at UVA read more to me as "if we don't move back west now, on our terms, we may never do it," than it read "I'm burned out and need to take a year or two off."

Most people only understand the latter, which is why it gets spun that way - as the former is more difficult to communicate in a way that doesn't feel like someone is passing a moral judgement (on either the person, or on the culture, or on the geography).

 

[BlackNGold]

I don't believe CU will ever allow a FB culture like was here pre-2003. So we need a new paradigm for the program which works within what CU is and the values & standards it believes in. If I'm wrong, then I concede the entire argument on what type of hire we should be looking to make.

What are these values and standards that CU has that schools like Michigan, Texas, etc. don't have? That statement makes it sound like CU is taking some high-minded approach when in reality it is taking a small-minded philosophy. In reality CU lacks vision and commitment to Athletic success. It is not because there is some high road the University is on.

 

[Not Sure]

Sadly, this is the national narrative around the CU job:

The search may not be very fruitful though, as some of the reviews coming back concerning the prospects of the job aren’t exactly positive.

According to CBS Sports’ Dennis Dodd, there have been some very harsh realities brought to light about the Colorado job from anonymous outside perspectives.

“The complications are it’s a difficult, complex landscape. It’s different than most people think it is,” one coach familiar with Colorado told CBS Sports.

Another anonymous coach told Dodd that he “wouldn’t wish that job on anybody.”

I’m envisioning Phil in his office wondering why nobody wants to coach here. I’m certain it is genuinely perplexing to him and there’s not a shred of self awareness to be found.

 

[leftybuff]

Sadly, this is the national narrative around the CU job:

The search may not be very fruitful though, as some of the reviews coming back concerning the prospects of the job aren’t exactly positive.

According to CBS Sports’ Dennis Dodd, there have been some very harsh realities brought to light about the Colorado job from anonymous outside perspectives.

“The complications are it’s a difficult, complex landscape. It’s different than most people think it is,” one coach familiar with Colorado told CBS Sports.

Another anonymous coach told Dodd that he “wouldn’t wish that job on anybody.”

 

[leftybuff]

What are these values and standards that CU has that schools like Michigan, Texas, etc. don't have?

Institutional incompentence.