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Official CU vs TCU Game Thread - 10/4 @ 5:30 MT on FOX

The situation is far better than before. I’m certainly not disputing that. My point is that he has recruited at a top 3 Big 12 level in both HS and portal each year he’s been here, so using money as an excuse for why we can’t compete in the Big 12 right now while programs who have been far worse in recruiting are successful doesn’t make sense.

IMO, our team is as talented if not more talented than every team we’ve played, outside of the QB position, so I’m blaming it mostly on Salter. However, Primes staff decisions and recruiting evaluation decisions with Salter (and others), have been an issue.
How can you say that situation isn't attributed to Prime?

What has changed with CU map since Prime been here. He doesn't use it but looking back at it, none of the other coaches did either. Other than getting the scraps at power schools on the west like Mater Dei or south like Buford.

You want to say this situation is fine. I don't believe it is. Is it better than before but it's not that much better. I can truly say, Jackson State was in a much better situation post Prime considering their expectations were massively smaller than Prime's but their goals were clear. Improve the fanbase energy to the team, build a national brand where people don't look confused when you say their name. Has Prime improved the situation. You were selling out games before Prime. Now it's 108% sellout and the media.

If Prime left, would recruiting improve or go back to pre Prime status.


50th in public records. RG has been on record that Prime not traveling saves us a lot of money in recruiting so now that budget goes up. Limited recruiting map. You don't have even the big spenders that Arizona and Arizona State have. Idk man. I keep saying this.

Could you do better than Prime as a strategist? Yes. As a tactician considering he's generational bad? Absolutely. He's probably the worst at it in the nation.

Hes an elite talent developer, I think he's the best in college football at it.

Elite motivator. One of the best in the game.

Good recruiter. Him having his own recruiting map, media empire and his sport brand being elite is why his recruiting is way better than it probably should be based on his skills. He's not Saban or Smart. He's not close to Fran Brown or Mel Tucker but he has those 3 things and no one else does.

Prime isn't perfect but I don't know if your situation is that all that great. You can't go back to Coach Mac era. Just a completely different era. Coach Mac won just 1 game in his 3rd year. Look at how we are acting with Coach Prime. If you want this to work with Prime, give him time. If you want to win now, give him money. Its just that simple.
 
So I guess we believe that the new NIL rules will not be effective in keeping donors from giving more than the $20M allowed? Our AD thinks the new rules will work, and the audit process for the market deals will be effective.
 
How can you say that situation isn't attributed to Prime?

What has changed with CU map since Prime been here. He doesn't use it but looking back at it, none of the other coaches did either. Other than getting the scraps at power schools on the west like Mater Dei or south like Buford.

You want to say this situation is fine. I don't believe it is. Is it better than before but it's not that much better. I can truly say, Jackson State was in a much better situation post Prime considering their expectations were massively smaller than Prime's but their goals were clear. Improve the fanbase energy to the team, build a national brand where people don't look confused when you say their name. Has Prime improved the situation. You were selling out games before Prime. Now it's 108% sellout and the media.

If Prime left, would recruiting improve or go back to pre Prime status.


50th in public records. RG has been on record that Prime not traveling saves us a lot of money in recruiting so now that budget goes up. Limited recruiting map. You don't have even the big spenders that Arizona and Arizona State have. Idk man. I keep saying this.

Could you do better than Prime as a strategist? Yes. As a tactician considering he's generational bad? Absolutely. He's probably the worst at it in the nation.

Hes an elite talent developer, I think he's the best in college football at it.

Elite motivator. One of the best in the game.

Good recruiter. Him having his own recruiting map, media empire and his sport brand being elite is why his recruiting is way better than it probably should be based on his skills. He's not Saban or Smart. He's not close to Fran Brown or Mel Tucker but he has those 3 things and no one else does.

Prime isn't perfect but I don't know if your situation is that all that great. You can't go back to Coach Mac era. Just a completely different era. Coach Mac won just 1 game in his 3rd year. Look at how we are acting with Coach Prime. If you want this to work with Prime, give him time. If you want to win now, give him money. Its just that simple.
I’m going to try this one more time because you’re either not reading what I’m saying or not understanding.

Prime has elevated CU in every way possible. Without him, CU might have been left behind in the Pac 12 (maybe), they’d have no shot at Juju/Seaton/etc and they would be just another mid-lower brand in a second tier conference.

The point im trying to make is that this 2025 team has been constructed by Prime with these so called inferior resources to our conference peers, yet the recruiting rankings suggest we have assembled a top 3 talented roster in the conference based on recruit rankings and avg rating. That means that even if $$$ is an issue to compete nationally with B1G and SEC programs, he has still has what he’s needed to compete for talent at the top of the Big 12.

So if they are a top 3-4 Big 12 program in talent, why can’t we win Big 12 games? We literally out recruit Iowa State, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Houston, Kansas, TCU, Arizona, ASU, yet we are massively struggling to get wins. As I said, I personally attribute most of it to Salter being bad, but the shortcomings of this program in 2025 ultimately have to be attributed to Prime himself as he approved Salter being brought in and he approved Shurmur as OC and Hart as LB coach. Not to mention the recruiting strategy and the fact he doesn’t do visits to close recruits.

In short, the 2025 season failure simply can’t be attributed to lack of $$$. This is on coaching, talent evaluation, roster construction and $$$ allocation.
 
Honest question: I am curious which AC's are upgrades over prior staffs? I would agree there are some, but there is some serious soul searching that has to go on for some, IMO.

That is a good question. I'm not sure a prior staff comparison works as whomever the AC is, they work for the HC. Normally, CU has trouble holding onto any good Coordinator or AC, as they move up/on. Gary Barnett probably had the best luck with ACs, but CU could not keep many of them for very long.

For better or for worse, Prime sort of plays CEO for the program. He does not appear as involved in game-day coaching as other P-4 HCs, but he takes the heat when they lose and is the face of the program. The coordinators and ACs do a bit more. I still say Prime himself is relatively inexperienced on Gameday compared to other P-4HCs, but the other positives outweigh those negatives--recruiting, portaling, exposure, positive influence, and face of program. With Prime there will be delegation. Mac1 did this, as the ACs were in competition with each other.

For the 2023 squad, I do not think any of the coaches played particularly well in the sandbox with one another, specifically Lewis (OC), BOB and Kelly (DC). There was a disconnect and it seemed like they rarely used the coach in the box from above. IMO, the coaches lost the Stanford game just by not being on the same page. Lewis and BOB over-rated the Oline and that was the season downfall. Kelly just did not play well with other coaches and maybe the players too. Both Kelly and Lewis are head-coaches now, so they were stop-gaps anyways. That staff did not get the team integrated or motivated to the degree Prime desired. To Prime's credit he swallowed his pride and made changes.

For 2024-25, Prime decided to go a more NFL heavy route. Livingston hit as DC and I think he meshes well with Helow, but not as many great adjustments as last year. In watching BYU and TCU, there was definitely incremental improvement, but not turnovers or key plays. We need those. I do think as more film becomes available on CU's defense, other staffs are able to find and exploit the weaknesses. It is up to them to adjust accordingly but you can't find talent at certain positions if it is not there. Peko/Sapp are guys players want to play for, so I think we get good Dline talent going forward and since young guys are playing, they are taking to the coaching. This year we have not adjusted or found the right player formula. Moving Byard up is a positive.

I think for the ACs they are always coaching for their job. Other guys will be on the block if CU continues to regress. I'm not sure why Hart can't find decent fills at LB. Expect for Hill-Green, LB has been a major continuing issue and face it, we have stuck out in the portal more at this position than any other except TE. We are playing Brown (he has played good based on his projection), Byard (a converted S), and then whomever at LB. For Bartalone, we have struck out on so many TEs. At season's end, I think these ACs and the secondary will get a closer look. This time around, I think Prime will be looking at guys he brought with him from Jackson St. On the one hand I think they were necessary for continuity, stability, and initial team building but on the other they are probably not as seasoned as P-4 guys or even some NFLers.

On D, they will have some time to mesh, however like it or not losing Colton Hood was huge. TH was already huge shoes to fill, but McKinney and Hood on the outside, would have given more lee-way for S's, Hodge and LB's on the inside. Last year, we could play man coverage, this year more zone. Stout may not look like a bad player, if they were better at CB. Past the Dline, we are exposed in the middle of the field playing either zone or man. Cunningham has to figure this out.

Shurmer coached the O to 9 wins in 2024, albeit pass heavy with many NFLers and Oline? This year Pat has been more balanced. I like the new O but it is really a new install and at present we just do not have a ready QB to run it. The Oline is better, not sure if that is talent, but the Gunner, Hegeman or Gurode combo seems better than Loadholt (CU does have trouble holding onto ACs). Faulk was an upgrade from Flea and has that room running hard, albeit with injuries. I like the RB room, however they need a game-breaker to emerge. Give Faulk a year or two.

Except for the TCU gaff, special teams have been better.

For the Shurmer haters, he may or may not go, but we need a great OC candidate in waiting if we make the change. Be careful for what you wish--Leftwich could maybe do it; but if we strike out, it will be yet another O install and possibly stuck again in transition. This season Shurmer has made major adjustments, it is an install however they are not putting 30 points on the board either. I'm not sure we have the talent to win offensive shootouts, and this O is more geared to be coupled with an excellent defense. I think the staff probably should have considered moving Drelon much earlier. Since Pat is doing the install and play calling, they will have to consider a decent QB coach for more focus there. I am still unclear if Leftwich is here on a "volunteer" basis. In closing, we have to remember that there are budgetary constraints for football operations overall including ACs, and we have grown the overall operation substantially.
 
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I’m going to try this one more time because you’re either not reading what I’m saying or not understanding.

Prime has elevated CU in every way possible. Without him, CU might have been left behind in the Pac 12 (maybe), they’d have no shot at Juju/Seaton/etc and they would be just another mid-lower brand in a second tier conference.

The point im trying to make is that this 2025 team has been constructed by Prime with these so called inferior resources to our conference peers, yet the recruiting rankings suggest we have assembled a top 3 talented roster in the conference based on recruit rankings and avg rating. That means that even if $$$ is an issue to compete nationally with B1G and SEC programs, he has still has what he’s needed to compete for talent at the top of the Big 12.

So if they are a top 3-4 Big 12 program in talent, why can’t we win Big 12 games? We literally out recruit Iowa State, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Houston, Kansas, TCU, Arizona, ASU, yet we are massively struggling to get wins. As I said, I personally attribute most of it to Salter being bad, but the shortcomings of this program in 2025 ultimately have to be attributed to Prime himself as he approved Salter being brought in and he approved Shurmur as OC and Hart as LB coach. Not to mention the recruiting strategy and the fact he doesn’t do visits to close recruits.

In short, the 2025 season failure simply can’t be attributed to lack of $$$. This is on coaching, talent evaluation, roster construction and $$$ allocation.
This team is where it is because of offensive playcalling for some and poor player execution at key spots for the rest.
 
Maybe I missed the original point, but I am talking about Prime Buffs and their inability to win Big 12 games and you blaming it on $$$, recruiting grounds, resources, etc.

I’m tired of the Prime fans ****ting on CU as the institution that’s holding Prime back from being an elite college HC. This is his program. He has the keys to everything and is in year three of building it entirely in his image. He brags about having business connections to every Fortune 500 CEO. We know he has multiple billionaire friends. Yet, Prime fans are saying CU lacks the resources that Prime needs to be successful. It’s a total cop out.
Dude you are SO right
 
This team is where it is because of offensive playcalling for some and poor player execution at key spots for the rest.
I agree, which is why I mostly call bull**** on the excuses we see from the Prime fans that CU doesn’t have enough $$$ and it’s really hard to recruit to Boulder, CO. It’s all relative and those two things can be true if we’re talking about competing for a Natty, but we are just talking about winning 4-5 Big 12 conference games and going to a bowl at this point, not competing for the CFP.
 
I’m going to try this one more time because you’re either not reading what I’m saying or not understanding.

Prime has elevated CU in every way possible. Without him, CU might have been left behind in the Pac 12 (maybe), they’d have no shot at Juju/Seaton/etc and they would be just another mid-lower brand in a second tier conference.

The point im trying to make is that this 2025 team has been constructed by Prime with these so called inferior resources to our conference peers, yet the recruiting rankings suggest we have assembled a top 3 talented roster in the conference based on recruit rankings and avg rating. That means that even if $$$ is an issue to compete nationally with B1G and SEC programs, he has still has what he’s needed to compete for talent at the top of the Big 12.

So if they are a top 3-4 Big 12 program in talent, why can’t we win Big 12 games? We literally out recruit Iowa State, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Houston, Kansas, TCU, Arizona, ASU, yet we are massively struggling to get wins. As I said, I personally attribute most of it to Salter being bad, but the shortcomings of this program in 2025 ultimately have to be attributed to Prime himself as he approved Salter being brought in and he approved Shurmur as OC and Hart as LB coach. Not to mention the recruiting strategy and the fact he doesn’t do visits to close recruits.

In short, the 2025 season failure simply can’t be attributed to lack of $$$. This is on coaching, talent evaluation, roster construction and $$$ allocation.
I completely understand and agree with a vast part of what you are saying. I am saying, let's have more reasoning for this squad. It's clear to everyone we have talent, more talent than we had last year or two years ago but without special players, we just don't have the dudes to get it done.

Saying, we have a top 3 recruiting class speaks to talent but if we look at our recruiting weaknesses coming into this summer, CB looked weak on the boundary and the LBs looks like it could be a disaster. We were right, it is. We knew that Kaidon might not translate. He didn't. We know we don't have an Xs and Os coach. We been knew that.

Just because someone says, we need more money and we can avoid even Prime screw ups isn't a comp out. It's just facts since Prime can attract those higher end players to Boulder but they want to get paid.
 
Not the best of news but Trevor Woods joined up with Coach Kelly at Jacksonville State and he's leading the team in tackles. Trevor would be a starter with this squad. No question about it
 
But Boulder is pretty much like any other place.

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Not the best of news but Trevor Woods joined up with Coach Kelly at Jacksonville State and he's leading the team in tackles. Trevor would be a starter with this squad. No question about it
Against the schedule we've played, I think he'd have been outstanding as a center fielder safety. This would have allowed Stoutmire to play NB against these run teams we've faced. I don't think he was ever going to make it as an ILB.
 
Money is such a cop out. CU has plenty of money to compete in this conference. We aren’t talking about competing in the SEC or B1G. If Iowa State, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, etc can win in the Big 12, then CU should be able to as well.

It’s mostly the “Prime fans” who are making this excuse at every turn. Some are even begging Prime to leave CU for the likes of ****ing Arkansas or SMU because of the resources he’d have there. CU is more talented than most teams they’ve played this season, they just majorly whiffed on the bridge QB and have had some of the worst coaching in the conference.

We are competitive. While it is not the SEC or Big Ten, it will take money to dominate the conference. The Big 12 is too deep with top 50 programs. I personally think you need a person or people to come in and say they will match the AD in spending.
 
Prime needs to leverage his wealthy relationships. Point blank, period. All the top program coaches are out there fundraising and kissing the booster rings. CU doesn’t have the booster network those programs do but CP wouldn’t kiss the rings even if we did have them. If he doesn’t have the budget other programs do, he needs to take action. He is the driver of this ship, not a passenger.

I thought money was a cop out?
 
So I guess we believe that the new NIL rules will not be effective in keeping donors from giving more than the $20M allowed? Our AD thinks the new rules will work, and the audit process for the market deals will be effective.

Sorry for all the consecutive posts. I'm working my way through the thread and I have WAY too many important things to say.

The $20mm cap only applies to direct payments from the AD (as I understand it). A $100mm roster would be completely legal if $80mm comes from outside the AD. So it isn't that the cap won't be effective - it's only intended to be a cap on the AD.

“The top (football) teams are going to cost $40-50 million a year,” said one power conference personnel director. “That’s where this is going. Anyone who thinks different is nuts.”

Non-paywalled article here:
 
Sorry for all the consecutive posts. I'm working my way through the thread and I have WAY too many important things to say.

The $20mm cap only applies to direct payments from the AD (as I understand it). A $100mm roster would be completely legal if $80mm comes from outside the AD. So it isn't that the cap won't be effective - it's only intended to be a cap on the AD.



Non-paywalled article here:
Understand, but the contribution from donors has to based on market value of services rendered and will be audited. Not sure how $80M in your example would pass muster.
 
That post was in response that CU doesn’t have boosters stepping up to fund NIL. It is a cop out excuse as to why we are 2-4 and likely not making a bowl game this year.

Meh. But you also said we'd be 5-1 if we had better QB play (which I tend to agree with).
 
Understand, but the contribution from donors has to based on market value of services rendered and will be audited. Not sure how $80M in your example would pass muster.

Ahh. I was unaware of the so-called "fair market value" test. That seems completely unworkable. And I would think it throws the $20mm cap further into the crosshairs of antitrust law.
 
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