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Official realignment thread - SEC formally invites OU and Texas to join the conference in 2025
Yay... Very logical
Did the sheep even make the laughingly dismissed list?
SIAP
I kind of agree with Wilner here.
University of Houston is a perfect fit as a 13th conference member.
The problem is figuring out who #14 should be.
I think he underrated KU, though. They'd increase conference revenue and be a cultural fit (large, secular, research intensive - even an AAU member).
www.mercurynews.com
I kind of agree with Wilner here.
University of Houston is a perfect fit as a 13th conference member.
The problem is figuring out who #14 should be.
I think he underrated KU, though. They'd increase conference revenue and be a cultural fit (large, secular, research intensive - even an AAU member).
If the Pac-12 were to expand, one school stands as the clear No. 1 pick
The conference is expected to announce this week that it will not expand. But in an alternate universe, where it must add teams, one option stands above the rest: Houston.
www.mercurynews.com
SIAP
I kind of agree with Wilner here.
University of Houston is a perfect fit as a 13th conference member.
The problem is figuring out who #14 should be.
I think he underrated KU, though. They'd increase conference revenue and be a cultural fit (large, secular, research intensive - even an AAU member).
If the Pac-12 were to expand, one school stands as the clear No. 1 pick
The conference is expected to announce this week that it will not expand. But in an alternate universe, where it must add teams, one option stands above the rest: Houston.
Yup, I fail to understand why this conference doesn't see the value of getting into the Central timezone. I get that you can't take just any team in that timezone but Houston fits the bill in a few ways, in particular recruiting in the Houston area.
As for the 14th member, Oklahoma State
SerenityBuff
Well-Known Member
I think the alliance will help getting us into the central and eastern time zones without adding Texas or midwestern schools, which the presidents have no desire to do.
Wilner is pretty dialed in with the P12 presidents and what they're actually looking for.
Geography is in there, though. Probably more than he wants to acknowledge.
A stat was just put up during the USC game. Rounding a bit, 38% of Pac-12 rosters come from California. 2nd was Texas at 9%.
While states like Arizona, Washington and Utah have some talent it's just not enough. If we could add Texas schools (UH plus TTU would be most likely, I think), it would balance things more and improve the football while increasing revenue.
Culturally, both UH and TTU are public, secular R1 research universities. I kind of expect it to happen, actually.
P.S. If we ever needed to go to 16 down the road, I think we'll see a lot of geographic talk about filling the footprint. Universities of Nevada & New Mexico as R1 flagships will get consideration as bets on the future - which could be done with junior revenue shares that escalated to par over a decade. But you need to be in Texas first.
While states like Arizona, Washington and Utah have some talent it's just not enough. If we could add Texas schools (UH plus TTU would be most likely, I think), it would balance things more and improve the football while increasing revenue.
Culturally, both UH and TTU are public, secular R1 research universities. I kind of expect it to happen, actually.
P.S. If we ever needed to go to 16 down the road, I think we'll see a lot of geographic talk about filling the footprint. Universities of Nevada & New Mexico as R1 flagships will get consideration as bets on the future - which could be done with junior revenue shares that escalated to par over a decade. But you need to be in Texas first.
So 45% of Pac 12 rosters are CA/TX and 55% are from elsewhere with #2 only representing 9%? Where else are these rosters from? That seems off
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
I don’t disagree about Texas, but isn’t Houston about to join the Big12?
It’s for the PAC overall. Each school outside of California probably has 20% to 30% of its roster from their home state, but the percentage is low elsewhere. The Huskies have a lot of homegrown talent, but other schools in the pac have maybe a couple of athletes from Washington State. CU has way more Coloradans than other schools, same holds for Utah, Arizona, ASU. Stanford recruits nationally. Seems right.
The other 3 I mentioned were 5%-ish. So was Oregon. So that takes you to about 60% from CA plus them. Then you've got CO, NV and HI with a few from ID/WY/NM along with the national recruiting. 25+% coming from outside the footprint (including Texas as outside) sounds about right to me.
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For now, that's the discussion. B12 couldn't come close to matching a P12 media revenue deal, though. We can get anyone we want from that group.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
Would have to happen pretty quick right? The Big12 meeting is on September 10th I thought.
Wouldn't the P12 need to act fast since UH to the Big12 is about to happen? I wouldn't think that UH would join the Big12 only to jump to another conference soon after
Ha, beat me to the punch!
SerenityBuff
Well-Known Member
Look, I'm not going to say "never." But don't hold your breath waiting for the Pac-12 to get into Texas. Sure there are some financial and recruiting reasons to do so. But having been around Pac-12 universities for all of my professional life, I can say there is major resistance to do so for political and cultural reasons. We're talking about a conference and states who have refused to travel to states with discriminatory laws, and that's unlikely to change with what's going on in Texas.
The school presidents do not want to have to explain to students, faculty, alums why we're aligning with Texas schools in the current political climate, and recruiting reasons ain't gonna fly. You mentioned culture, but I'm sure you know there are zero cultural similarities between USC, Stanford, UCLA, and a school like Texas Tech.
Why?
My guess is the remaining B12 schools are just trying to hold together until their GOR payment settlement from UT & OU comes in. I'd be shocked if they could pass anything that tied anyone's hands from leaving after the current agreement expires.
P12 probably just gonna wait 2 years.
Just wait. CA presidents are not united and the days of the Cal/Stanford vision being dominant died with Larry Scott. That failed. The dominant players in the new vision are USC/UO.
I was thinking you meant sooner but 2 years down the road seems a bit more realistic. Unfortunately what Serenity said above seems more realistic based on everything we've heard from people who know the conference presidents well, like Wilner and Schwartz.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
I guess I just don’t see UH applying for Big12 membership and the Big 12 accepting them in the next week or two, only for them to say j/k we’re going to the PAC in 2 years before ever actually joining the Big12. I could be wrong I suppose.
Well hopefully you're right for the sake of the conference going forward. And what you're saying aligns exactly with Kliavkoff's message regarding the importance of football (and basketball to a lesser extent). At least the AD's get it
SerenityBuff
Well-Known Member
USC is still running the show. And I guarantee you Carol Folt wants nothing to do with a state like Texas that sells its soul for football. She was brought in to clean things up and de-emphasize football. Otherwise she would've fired Helton and hired Urban on day one. I know it's not what people here want to hear, but to many of these Pac-12 presidents, football just isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. They have no desire to be the SEC.
For better or for worse, the Pac-12 stakeholders are very snobby and look down on football factories. They see themselves as powerhouse academic institutions and football is a nice distraction. If the football programs are successful, great, if not, well we still are among the top schools in the nation. And the academics in the conference don't give a **** about nouveau riche Oregon. It may happen, it may not, but I wouldn't count on it.
UH and TTU aren't football factories. They're at R1 (highest research intensity classification by Carnegie). They're also not focused on agricultural science, which the P12 schools also look down on. And both have invested in medical schools/uni hospitals and have great engineering schools. Plus they're secular.
The only things that don't measure up are non-AAU (not a P12 requirement like B1G) and TX state politics (which didn't stop expansion into AZ and Utah).
P.S. UC-Davis, UCSD and Cal Poly will never be viable & Rice + Tulane would be silly. All great candidates for research alliances, but not for a sports conference. I think nearly all of the current members have figured out that athletics is different than academics- it just can't compromise the academic values.
SerenityBuff
Well-Known Member
Not one person at USC, UCLA, Cal, etc. considers those schools peer institutions. They see UH as a commuter school. Also, the Arizona schools were added over 40 years ago when the political climate, even from when Utah was added, is light years different from what it is now. I believe you're discounting the cultural/political element too much. They're going to look at academics first, culture second, and football third. I'd even bet they sold Pac-12 alums on going to Park City to ski when they added Utah. How the **** are you going to convince moneyed alums from Westwood to visit Lubbock? Haha!
But hey, if Kliavkoff can sell the expansion into Texas to Folt, Tessier-Lavigne, Block, more power to him. I have no idea how he does it, but maybe it helps the conference in the long run. I just don't see much advantage in adding a couple of average Texas schools that don't bring much notoriety athletically, while plunging yourself into the world of Texas politics.
