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Pac 12 players threaten opt-out of 2020 CFB season unless health and safety and other demands are met

If the elite players didn't play then the level of play would be down (slightly) across college football as a whole, not just at CU or any other program. Alabama wouldn't be as a good as they typically are, but neither would Clemson, LSU, Ohio State, Georgia, OU, Oregon, Wisconsin, and the list goes on. So while the elite talent level as a whole may go down slightly the product wouldn't suffer anything close to a significant drop-off, the games would still be competitive, and the fans would still be watching and attending games.
 
If Virginia Tech weren’t regularly in contention for division/league titles and ranked around the top 25, I’m sure that their TV ratings would be much lower. Even in an off year, VT still fielded much better players than the bulk of FCS teams.
Tech has played for the ACC championship once in the last 8 years.

Not an off-year. We're in an off-decade and builidng toward another.
 
I think it’s a great lesson for these kids in accountability, discipline, attention to detail, and taking pride in their facilities.

*wet fart noise*

- CU Boulder Out of State Tuition, which is what all scholarship athletes are classified as, costs right around $40k/year. If you average that across the conference of 7k athletes, that's $280m just for tuition.

- On campus housing is $16k/year (includes 19 meals per week) x 7000 = $112m

So tuition, room & board alone has already brought the total cost for all Pac 12 athletes to around $390m and 50% of the total conference rev share according to the numbers above is around $265m. Players are already getting well over a 50% revenue share, they just aren't getting it in the form of cash money.

Tuition is Monopoly money in this scenario- how many classes is a school going to cancel if 300-400 student athletes aren’t going there? How many faculty headcount do they get to reduce? There aren’t any cost savings to the institution to make student athletes pay their own way, which is why it’ll never be used as a bargaining chip.

Just because CU charges their AD for the value of scholarships doesn’t mean that it’s not slushy accounting. They could just as easily “donate” the education to the AD. At most it would cost them a couple hundred thousand.
 
Title IX. End of discussion. If any player is paid a share of revenue then they all have to. If they have to cut all non revenue sports then all sports are cut. The 1st lawsuit to get filed will get a temporary injunction and it will force schools to either pay everyone or drop sports entirely.

NIL is a separate fund as it is based on an individual's own business interest and not institutional revenue.

This is just the start but a big start. Without a change in the law there is zero way that football players (and/or basketball players) can be paid without paying all scholarship athletes a similar amount, and cutting sports isn't an option because it would be less than 24 hours before multiple suits are filed claiming discrimination against female athletes.

Even if this wasn't the case the idea that the athletes are going to get a 50% split on revenues or anything close is unworkable and ridiculous.

Most FBS schools are running their athletic programs at a loss. the majority are probably losing money on football.

They make it up in the publicity generated and in non-directly related revenues and donations that are generated by association with the football program. Take away 50% of the revenues and the model simply doesn't work for a huge number of these schools. Turn the players into professionals and non-students and the association with the program and the alumni/donors is further reduced along with the non-direct revenues that come from them.

There are a limited number of schools that could probably make it work but in the end would they want to. Those schools are not going to happily give up millions of dollars either.

The idea of giving up the endorsement and image revenues to the players is again a transfer of significant funds that schools are already allocating and dependent on.

If anything like this revenue sharing were to occur you would immediately see a big reduction in the number of programs playing BCS level football. Virtually all the G5 schools would be gone, probably close to 1/2 of the current P5 schools would forced out.

Likely what you would see is a lot of schools deciding to downscale their programs, go to an FCS or D2 level (which would actually involve a complete restructuring of the divisions) some might even go to doing all sports at a club level.

If the players want a more fair system there are some demands that would make sense and be able to build support for.

Included would be a more reasonable cost of attendance. In addition to tuition, fees, housings, and food the players would get a stipend allowing them to live more like "normal" students going out to eat, see a show, buy some clothing, etc.

Also included would be a guarantee of scholarship through a full four years even if the player can't or doesn't play due to injury or a change in coaching staff or a number of other reasons with the full academic support that comes with being an athlete..

Health insurance for time at the university and at least 4-5 years after completion plus a long term coverage of conditions directly related to their playing days like knee and back injuries as well as potentially CTE related issues.

They could also demand fully paid schooling to bridge the completion of a degree following the completion of their eligibiity. Along with this additional transitional support into the workplace following their athletic careers with counseling and job placement assistance.
 
For me, college football suffers from original sin. That is, the schools pretend they are about education and not operating professional sports franchises. The players pretend to be regular students. The fans and media turn a blind eye to both obvious lies.

I have no problem with workers (players) banding together to negotiate a better deal. It does, however, shine a light on the facade.
 
Tech has played for the ACC championship once in the last 8 years.

Not an off-year. We're in an off-decade and builidng toward another.
But they go to bowl games, have decent winning seasons, and recruit pretty well. They’re not elite, but they’re relevant.
 
For me, college football suffers from original sin. That is, the schools pretend they are about education and not operating professional sports franchises. The players pretend to be regular students. The fans and media turn a blind eye to both obvious lies.

I have no problem with workers (players) banding together to negotiate a better deal. It does, however, shine a light on the facade.

But the players aren't workers. They are getting both the opportunity to play college sports and the opportunity to attend college. Both are freaking awesome. No one is forcing them to do this, it is completely voluntary and a total win for those who choose to participate. If you feel that you are so elite that you don't need college then pursue another path.
 
But the players aren't workers. They are getting both the opportunity to play college sports and the opportunity to attend college. Both are freaking awesome. No one is forcing them to do this, it is completely voluntary and a total win for those who choose to participate. If you feel that you are so elite that you don't need college then pursue another path.

When did working become involuntary? Nobody forces me to work at my job either. I exchange my labor for financial compensation. Players exchange their labor for education, housing, food, and other fringe benefits.

Several players at Northwestern filed suit against their university arguing in front of the court that they were in fact employees of the university. They lost the case, but they didn’t have hollow arguments.
 


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My opinion on this matter is based almost solely on anecdotal evidence and experience, so I will just use CU as an example on this subject, because that is what I know best.

I remember kids being recruited to CU well over 20 years ago being sold on a model of new facilities being built within the "next few years" (this model looked essentially identical to what was eventually built BTW). Around this time, CU signed one of the first sponsorship deals with Nike, and there were kids that wanted to put black tape over the Nike swoosh on their uniforms because they felt like they were being used as a bill board without (in their mind) their consent...they were told by the coaches that they wouldn't play if they did this, and that they agreed to this as part of their scholarship agreement. Back then, others told them to stop complaining and just enjoy getting all the free gear. Also during this time, every sport dined together and socially interacted in the weight room on an every day basis. This was important because with the limited amount of free time that a college athlete has, this provided a real opportunity to have a more diverse set of interactions with peers (you know, the whole college experience thing).... I have several (at least 15) friends that married counterparts on the VB, soccer and WBB teams.

Fast forward to now and the University eventually invested well over $100 million into those new facilities...but that's really more like they leveraged against future income produced by their student athletes. Student athletes are more or less segregated based on the sport they play, they don't eat together, and they don't train together....so your day to day interactions tend to be with just your teammates. The segregation happened in order to increase the efficiency and on field productivity of these players....coaches don't want to see their star QB flirting with that cutie from the VB team when he can be watching film. There are millions and millions more at stake for these Universities now than there was just a few decades ago. For these reasons, I see how this would feel a lot more like a job to these kids then it did 20-30 years ago.

We have all seen CFB change dramatically over the last 2 decades, but few have contemplated how these changes have impacted the student athletes.

I read the #WeAreUnited demands as being an attempt to shine a light on a lot these changes, which have very much eliminated the environment where a young person could go and play a sport at a high level and still enjoy being a student. Now (with COVID) these kids are going to be essentially locked in the palace, and told to not complain because it's nice, and it's part of their scholarship agreement. Forget about the fact that many of them won't feel comfortable being exposed to a high risk environment, or even worse, won't be able to see their family for fear of the same.

It is clear to me that this set of demands isn't all about money for these student athletes, but every one of these changes in college athletics came about because it was about the money for the Universities. For these reasons, I think it is smart to put revenue sharing on the table if you intend to negotiate....and I do believe the athletes hold the leverage in this current time.

TL;DR Don't complain about the kids being smart and making these demands, because much of this is a mess created by the Universities as they chased the $$$
 
My opinion on this matter is based almost solely on anecdotal evidence and experience, so I will just use CU as an example on this subject, because that is what I know best.

I remember kids being recruited to CU well over 20 years ago being sold on a model of new facilities being built within the "next few years" (this model looked essentially identical to what was eventually built BTW). Around this time, CU signed one of the first sponsorship deals with Nike, and there were kids that wanted to put black tape over the Nike swoosh on their uniforms because they felt like they were being used as a bill board without (in their mind) their consent...they were told by the coaches that they wouldn't play if they did this, and that they agreed to this as part of their scholarship agreement. Back then, others told them to stop complaining and just enjoy getting all the free gear. Also during this time, every sport dined together and socially interacted in the weight room on an every day basis. This was important because with the limited amount of free time that a college athlete has, this provided a real opportunity to have a more diverse set of interactions with peers (you know, the whole college experience thing).... I have several (at least 15) friends that married counterparts on the VB, soccer and WBB teams.

Fast forward to now and the University eventually invested well over $100 million into those new facilities...but that's really more like they leveraged against future income produced by their student athletes. Student athletes are more or less segregated based on the sport they play, they don't eat together, and they don't train together....so your day to day interactions tend to be with just your teammates. The segregation happened in order to increase the efficiency and on field productivity of these players....coaches don't want to see their star QB flirting with that cutie from the VB team when he can be watching film. There are millions and millions more at stake for these Universities now than there was just a few decades ago. For these reasons, I see how this would feel a lot more like a job to these kids then it did 20-30 years ago.

We have all seen CFB change dramatically over the last 2 decades, but few have contemplated how these changes have impacted the student athletes.

I read the #WeAreUnited demands as being an attempt to shine a light on a lot these changes, which have very much eliminated the environment where a young person could go and play a sport at a high level and still enjoy being a student. Now (with COVID) these kids are going to be essentially locked in the palace, and told to not complain because it's nice, and it's part of their scholarship agreement. Forget about the fact that many of them won't feel comfortable being exposed to a high risk environment, or even worse, won't be able to see their family for fear of the same.

It is clear to me that this set of demands isn't all about money for these student athletes, but every one of these changes in college athletics came about because it was about the money for the Universities. For these reasons, I think it is smart to put revenue sharing on the table if you intend to negotiate....and I do believe the athletes hold the leverage in this current time.

TL;DR Don't complain about the kids being smart and making these demands, because much of this is a mess created by the Universities as they chased the $$$
Who here would not argue for the same requests if it was your son or daughter?
 
I do not like people who only see color and make everything about race. I believe it holds us back from addressing the real issues in America and throughout the world. There are injustices that I’ll never see, that I’ll never know and I have to listen to people to understand and I do that daily. I don’t see color and I don’t see this as a white man vs black man kind of thing. I see this as college athletes vs the conference asking for a piece of the pie, it’s not white or black. We can all be real and we know the issues stem from poverty. From kids who feel trapped who feel their only ways out in life are through sports and making the NFL. We see it all the time, we hear it all the time. It makes for a beautiful story but a heartbreaking reality that we live in a world where people are made to feel that way. On the flip side college sports are a beautiful thing, they give access to kids who might never get that education. They can change courses of that persons life and possibly his kids lives as well. We see stories of NFL players going on to become doctors and bettering themselves and taking advantage of all the things they were given due to sports. I think we too often look for the bad and choose to ignore the good that comes from some of this.

I’m just bothered by race and color and talking about it. We’re all people, we’re all one, it’s about time we just started acting like it.
That last paragraph. Wow.
 
This just proves more and more that there needs to be a minor league system for football. Most of the demands are easily attainable, but payment puts a massive wrench in everything and is almost impossible, IMO. Give them the option and they can always go back to School, get School paid for, and get a degree.
 
This just proves more and more that there needs to be a minor league system for football. Most of the demands are easily attainable, but payment puts a massive wrench in everything and is almost impossible, IMO. Give them the option and they can always go back to School, get School paid for, and get a degree.
The NFL has a free, expansive, no risk farm system now. I’m amazed the players and colleges put up with that.
Start a development league and let college football revert to more like other sports. Alternatively, the colleges should leverage transfer fees like the European soccer system.
 
This just proves more and more that there needs to be a minor league system for football. Most of the demands are easily attainable, but payment puts a massive wrench in everything and is almost impossible, IMO. Give them the option and they can always go back to School, get School paid for, and get a degree.
The nfl could double their practice squad size and probably take care of the issue.
 
There is a text thread with 10 of my college buddies about the pay for play stuff. Everyone speaking up is universally "disgusted by the players' ungratefulness for the awesome opportunity they have been provided".

I'm sort of on the fence, but I wouldn't dare wade in to their obviously dug in positions over text.
 
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