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Sandusky update (more evidence against Joe P)

4DemBuffs said:
christ, tini. these people involved are without jobs, have been shamed, face many legal problems that pale in comparison to a school that they are no longer involved with getting a bowl ban.

that sound like an incentive for others to do the same to you?

use your ****ing brain for once.
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That's awesome and all but this is one of the worst scandals of all time and most don't face such legal problems like the PSU one will but what's going to stop Alabama or Auburn or the SEC or Miami or USC or Oregon or blOhio State from cheating? The "black eye"? That hasn't really affected any of those schools has it?
 
dio said:
Sounds like bowl ban and scholarship losses
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Really? that's "unprecedented"? A bowl ban is unprecedented?

edit: just saw the post about losing all scholarships over that period. Yeah, that would indeed be unprecedented. In fact, that would be worse than the death penalty. It would make them continue to pay the costs of running the program without any realistic hope of success. That's going to hurt.

Time to put Penn State on the CU schedule in, say three years.
 
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Darth Snow said:
You are also missing a point here about why institutions should be punished. Because then they will put in measures to prevent it from happening. See?
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that is assuming that baring that, no one will care about the other consequences at hand when it comes to thier reputation, lifetime ban, legal system punishment ect. depending on the nature of the infraction.

look. all that i am asking is that the gulity parties be punished. not those who are innocent. i cant believe there is a problem with that.

with that said, there is not much more for me to say about this. what is done is done. i dont have to agree with it. just the way things go. i was just expressing my opinon on the matter. and, it matters not. :smile2:

oh well.
 
4DemBuffs said:
that is assuming that baring that, no one will care about the other consequences at hand when it comes to thier reputation, lifetime ban, legal system punishment ect. depending on the nature of the infraction.

look. all that i am asking is that the gulity parties be punished. not those who are innocent. i cant believe there is a problem with that.

with that said, there is not much more for me to say about this. what is done is done. i dont have to agree with it. just the way things go. i was just expressing my opinon on the matter. and, it matters not. :smile2:

oh well.
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The institution is guilty. Glad we agree.
 
4DemBuffs said:
look. all that i am asking is that the gulity parties be punished. not those who are innocent. i cant believe there is a problem with that.
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4 Dem ... can you think of any serious sanction the NCAA has imposed that did not in some way "punish," i.e., adversely effect, innocent parties? There is inevitable collateral damage to those who did nothing wrong involved in any such sanction.


BTW ...


13Gl6R.AuSt.42.jpeg



An improvement IMO.
 
Who would have thought that the first guy to decommit from PSU was going to be a basketball player? Brandon Austin has decommitted.
 
OK - here's a really bizarre question that just came to my mind - i'm going to assume for a second that the PSU sanctions will also include a TV ban. What happens if a Pac 12 team schedules them? ALL Pac 12 games are televised.
 
Darth Snow said:
The institution is guilty. Glad we agree.
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This. If this was just Jerry Sandusky, or even just Joe Paterno, or heck even just the AD then it would probably be about punishing the offenders. This went all the way to the very top of the university, and was covered up by those with the fiduciary responsibility of the institution.
 
sackman said:
OK - here's a really bizarre question that just came to my mind - i'm going to assume for a second that the PSU sanctions will also include a TV ban. What happens if a Pac 12 team schedules them? ALL Pac 12 games are televised.
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I'm just guessing here, but I think TV bans are going to be a thing of the past given today's media access as well as being a punishment to the other school. I think it will now be loss of TV revenue.
 
NBDefektor said:
Let's see...

Traditional career: can theoretically last 40, 50 years if wanted. If your company goes bankrupt or has a scandal, you immediately get to look for other jobs.

college athletes: a "career" that lasts at most 5 years. and if the NCAA doesn't modify the rules for these players, they lose out on a YEAR of that. so this whole "just like the real-world" analogy doesn't seem to fit quite-so-nicely if you ask me.
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Did you miss the part where I said the penalties would only be fair if the players could transfer without restriction?
 
L Buff said:
4 Dem ... can you think of any serious sanction the NCAA has imposed that did not in some way "punish," i.e., adversely effect, innocent parties? There is inevitable collateral damage to those who did nothing wrong involved in any such sanction.


BTW ...


13Gl6R.AuSt.42.jpeg



An improvement IMO.
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A major improvement. And yeah, when players cycle through a program every 5 years, there's no way to punish a school for rule breaking in the past without impacting kids who weren't there when it happened. No-penalty transfers are the best way, but if a kid really wants to be at PSU for reasons other than sports (family connections, locations, lifelong attachment, maybe even academics), they're still being penalized. But I see no other choice... :huh:

sackman said:
OK - here's a really bizarre question that just came to my mind - i'm going to assume for a second that the PSU sanctions will also include a TV ban. What happens if a Pac 12 team schedules them? ALL Pac 12 games are televised.
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All BigInteger games are also televised...
 
Buffnik said:
Did you miss the part where I said the penalties would only be fair if the players could transfer without restriction?
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I believe that is almost always the case when serious sanctions are imposed on a program ... unless of course the players in question were directly involved in the violations for which the program is being punished.
 
Two things:

Penn State intended to benefit from the violations and had Sandusky not finally be caught they would have benefited. They wanted to avoid having to deal with a scandal involving a person directly linked to their program. To not penalize them at this point sends the message that the potential cost of a violation is more than justified by the benefit derived. This violation, a criminal violation no less, extended from the football coach all the way to the top of the administration and they all agreed to the violation by not reporting it. Unless PSU is punished and punished hard the message will be to other schools that cheating is to their benefit.

Secondly, I do empathize with those innocent persons who will be impacted by the penalties but that is always the case when punishment is applied. One of the prices that people pay when they violate the rules or the law is that other innocent people around them end up paying part of the price. How many spouses and children lose their homes because the other spouse violates the law, goes to jail, and loses a job and income because of it. Even when the violation isn't criminal how many jobs have been lost because of someone stealing from an employer or showing up for work once to often showing the effects of substance abuse. We don't keep on sending the paychecks because their families should get to stay in the same house and drive the same cars. Everyone suffers. It is an unfortunate consequence of the need to provide consequences for behaviors that are unaceptable to our society.
 
I've posted this before. Crime and punishment. What is the reason for punishment? Yes, it is to punish the perpetrator. But it is also to deter others from participating in similar behavior. In this case, yeah, they are punishing the institution who participated in these activities. But the NCAA is also sending a message to other "out of control" programs that they are not immune from severe punishment. It has to be that way. The NCAA does not want to send the message that, "Hey, sure, if you win at all costs, including breaking the law, and get caught, as long as you fire those who were culpable, you are off the hook."

In any situation where people or institutions are punished for committing crimes, there are innocent victims. Employees, family members, fans, etc. That is very unfortunate. But you cannot consider such things when meting out punishment for a crime. You can only do all you can do, within reason, to lessen the impact of the sentence on those caught in the cross fire.
 
Buffnik said:
Did you miss the part where I said the penalties would only be fair if the players could transfer without restriction?
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Um....yep!

i only go back so many pages in threads. i saw your response standing alone and went with it. my bad.
 
Itll be interesting to see, think it was Schad saying what they are gonna get might feel worse than the death penalty.
 
$60m fine, 4 season postseason ban, vacates all wins 1998-2011, no word on schollies yet, 5 year probation

20 scholly total, 10 annual reduction - means they can only have 65 total scholarship players and sign 15 per year
 
Jens1893 said:
$60m fine, 4 season postseason ban, vacates all wins 1998-2011, no word on schollies yet, 5 year probation

20 scholly total, 10 annual reduction - means they can only have 65 total scholarship players and sign 15 per year
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Hardly "unprecedented", IMO.
 
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