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The Running Game - or lack thereof

i know last year Lewis specifically stated that he didn't script plays, but I'm a Shanahan era Colorado/Denver football fan so I always hated to hear that. I hope we can script a first 20 play sheet and practice it all week with 6-8 runs, 2-3 motion tosses/throws (moving laterally with instant upfield opportunities), 2 - 3 deep shots, and the rest quick game throws. If it doesn't work or the down and distance isn't normal, so be it, but execute those plays with that balance and then move on according to game state. Plan the audibles, but only in a "break glass in case of emergency" way. Just play offense in a well prepared way and trust the talent and the process.
 
Ctrl+Z said:
^this... a complete lack of creativity with any sort of pre-snap motions/shifts. All that speed and inability to run between the tackles, and it took 8 qtrs to see a jet sweep or push pass. Where are the RPO's? Is Shurmur stubborn, not with the times or would CP rather lose 'developing' SS2 vs win (compete) doing gimmicky cfb stuff?
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I'm not sure I even see development type stuff for SS. Development would have him rolling in the pocket from time to time or lining him up under center from time to time to add wrinkles and ge him more comfortable. The Tom Brady model of standing in a clean or unclean pocket SS can do in Spades but can he throw while on the run to his L or R like Maholmes or J.Allen? Can he get to a place where a DE has to decide to cover a back or TE or come attack him. I haven't seen much of that. And really some of that is because either our Offense has no imagination, or we simply want to be a pocket passing team. Which is especially dumb in college as the chances of Winning go up dramatically if you can be more of a dual threat in college.
 
BuffUp said:
Nice breakdown


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Really good points made at the board and additional points made in response. I'd have liked them to focus on what can be done from a 10 formation which can address the issues with protection and run game, though. Because if it was impossible to protect or run from that set, no one in football would be a primary 10 formation team. You can go 4 WRs with a single back and not look like CU has last year through last week.

One huge problem here is that the most basic and effective way to generate a power running game with 10 personnel is with RPO and zone read. That's not going to happen with Shedeur (big reason the Lewis offense couldn't work last year), so the answer was to not run 10 personnel as a base offense.

Also, here's a quick guide for anyone who doesn't geek out on personnel sets:

10 = 1 RB, 0 TE, 4 WR
11 = 1 RB, 1 TE, 3 WR
12 = 1 RB, 2 TE, 2 WR
13 = 1 RB, 3 TE, 1 WR
20 = 2 RB, 0 TE, 3 WR
21 = 2 RB, 1 TE, 2 WR
22 = 2 RB, 2 TE, 1 WR

You can also go combinations of "Empty" sets with no RB or combos of "Jumbo" with no WR, but those are situational for specific situations. Those would never be your base, though you will see teams motion to alter formation to change the defensive alignment out of what they're geared for based on personnel (ex, a RB motioning to the slot to create an Empty). It's why RBs who have WR skills and TEs who are versatile enough to play with a hand in the dirt like an OT, play H like a FB, and split out like a WR are at such a premium in recruiting and in the NFL.

Basically, CU is in 10 personnel every play and doesn't do any RPO/ Zone Read rushing plays, so we're incredibly easy to game plan against.

Edit: Maybe extra wide splits and a lot of quick passing option reads like Leach used to do to generate a running game & not give a pass rush time to get home? I don't know how else you address out of 10 without going Air Raid. That's what they did at Jackson State. They'd lose against talented and more physical teams in their bowl games, but they ran wild on anyone who couldn't physically dominate the box.
 
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One thing briefly brought up in the video and I just tweeted about is that 20 personnel would work.

You could presnap motion a back outside to switch to 10. Or you stay in it and add a ton of versatility to your run game while not giving the defense easy keys like 10 with no RPO/ Zone Read saddles you with.
 
Buffnik said:
One thing briefly brought up in the video and I just tweeted about is that 20 personnel would work.

You could presnap motion a back outside to switch to 10. Or you stay in it and add a ton of versatility to your run game while not giving the defense easy keys like 10 with no RPO/ Zone Read saddles you with.
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And we have a perfect guy to do this. Drelon Miller
 
patebuff said:
This. Viska was perfect in that hybrid role and I think Drelon could be as well. He probably doesn't have quite the size in the run game just yet, but its something and the defense absolutely has to keep an eye on him at all times in the pass game.
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we've seen him in practice vids catching deep balls. let the young man coooook
 
Darth Snow said:
So, I didn't watch the game on Saturday. I was hoping to get home and enjoy a good football game, but I checked the score and saw the disaster that had unfolded in the first half. Not really surprised. Our offense is predictable and stagnant.

Been thinking about why this keeps happening and how different our offense looks whenever 2 is out. And I wondered how in the ****in hell a NFL OC called 4 run plays in the first half. The simple answer is he didn't. This is on 2. He's the one who made the calls to limit the run game.

1) Obviously 2 has a ton of control over what formations and play calls we are in. He's been doing it since his frosh year, and his dad lets him do it. It works out sometimes. But now that high level DCs have enough film on him, it's become a problem. The crazy thing is he has enough talent to still succeed.

2) He's a really smart guy that, every play, thinks he can have an answer for what the defense shows. It's become his downfall. To put it another way: 2 doesn't care about game plans or counter-counter moves, he only sees the game one play at a time.

3) He has a history of making what I'm calling "video game choices" that don't take the overall game situation into account. That pass call against NDSU in the 4th being the best example. Another one would be the USC game where he marched down the field at snails pace and gave us almost no shot to win the game despite scoring. He looks at the field, sees something, and chooses what he likes IN THAT MOMENT instead of sticking with the safe call that gets you 2d and 7 or 3d and 4. He's not even thinking 2 plays ahead. This makes our O predictable.

4) Until 2 accepts that it's a good idea to switch up from what he likes most and run the ball even when it's not the perfect look or even when he thinks he can pull one over on the D, he's gonna make things easy for the defense.

5) 2 aint ****in doin that. If last year's beat down didn't change his outlook, nothing will. From his press conference, no lightbulb has gone on.

6) We are going to sputter on offense all year and will be lucky to win 6 against this schedule. Nothing is going to change.

7) As always, doom.
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Interesting post. If that is what is going on with the offense this team is highly disfunction. If people from the outside are seeing this then how must it look to the players on the inside. A talented player putting himself and a few others above the team.

Shedeur might play himself out of the first round if he gets a label of uncoachable.
 
o_robbie said:
I'm not sure I even see development type stuff for SS. Development would have him rolling in the pocket from time to time or lining him up under center from time to time to add wrinkles and ge him more comfortable. The Tom Brady model of standing in a clean or unclean pocket SS can do in Spades but can he throw while on the run to his L or R like Maholmes or J.Allen? Can he get to a place where a DE has to decide to cover a back or TE or come attack him. I haven't seen much of that. And really some of that is because either our Offense has no imagination, or we simply want to be a pocket passing team. Which is especially dumb in college as the chances of Winning go up dramatically if you can be more of a dual threat in college.
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This is my point, they won't put SS under center because of protection issues but the lack of imagination, playing in the pocket, giving him full control at the LOS, is all a product of developing (over-parenting??) SS for the next level.

I think the points you've mentioned re: NFL prototypes, is still much more a part of the CFB game (yes, the NFL game is shifting), but CP would rather stick to molding SS into a Brady vs. use any of these proven CFB 'gimmicks' to win games.

All speculation of course, but it just doesn't feel like a coach who's coaching for his job, but instead coaching for the one he wants for his son...
 
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I don’t have much hope of the offensive scheme changing and any real effort to run the ball. Yesterday Brian asked Prime about run blocking and Primes answer was all I needed to know. Prime is stubborn and hard headed and appears to think that the only way the team can win is if Shedeur throws for 400 plus yards every game and has 40 plus attempts. I’ve been on the Prime band wagon since he came, have my two pairs of blenders, prime shirt and hat but having serious doubts now. When you keep doing the same thing every game and expect a different result you are crazy. This week will be the litmus test for the rest of the season. If they don’t change the scheme for CSU then they won’t do it at all.
 
Del said:
I don’t have much hope of the offensive scheme changing and any real effort to run the ball. Yesterday Brian asked Prime about run blocking and Primes answer was all I needed to know. Prime is stubborn and hard headed and appears to think that the only way the team can win is if Shedeur throws for 400 plus yards every game and has 40 plus attempts. I’ve been on the Prime band wagon since he came, have my two pairs of blenders, prime shirt and hat but having serious doubts now. When you keep doing the same thing every game and expect a different result you are crazy.
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At this point Prime only cares about #2 getting ESPN highlights and that can't happen if he hands the ball off to someone else.
 
Del said:
I don’t have much hope of the offensive scheme changing and any real effort to run the ball. Yesterday Brian asked Prime about run blocking and Primes answer was all I needed to know. Prime is stubborn and hard headed and appears to think that the only way the team can win is if Shedeur throws for 400 plus yards every game and has 40 plus attempts. I’ve been on the Prime band wagon since he came, have my two pairs of blenders, prime shirt and hat but having serious doubts now. When you keep doing the same thing every game and expect a different result you are crazy.
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We got away with it against NDSU and should have known what was coming. Unfortunately, we were totally exposed against NU.

I don't expect Coach Prime to come out on Tuesday and say "We know we need better protection and ability to run the ball, so we are mostly droping 10 for 11, 12, and 21 the rest of the way" so CSU can react to it and be ready.

If we see the same BS on Saturday with the same OL starters you may as well turn the lights out as that's our last chance to try to tune up for B12 play.
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
Flea publicly acknowledging that Prime is asking the offensive staff for changes in how they approach the run game, including bringing in extra OL and putting Shedeur under center.

No excuses anymore.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1833982467352440835
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About Time Phone GIF by John Crist Comedy
 
I mean, if there aren't 4 WRs on the field, it starts to limit the changes SS can actually make.
 
If our TE can't go in motion as an h back (or our offense has no motion) can't catch the ball, or shedeur won't throw him the ball, might as well put more beef on the line and pull them to hopefully put some stress on the defense when it comes to gap responsibility
 
Darth Snow said:
If our TE can't go in motion as an h back (or our offense has no motion) can't catch the ball, or shedeur won't throw him the ball, might as well put more beef on the line and pull them to hopefully put some stress on the defense when it comes to gap responsibility
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I don’t know if we have the interior OL players to consistently win against Nebraskas DT pair, but if they can’t be physically dominant against CSU’s front, they have some serious issues.
 
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