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The Running Game - or lack thereof

So, I didn't watch the game on Saturday. I was hoping to get home and enjoy a good football game, but I checked the score and saw the disaster that had unfolded in the first half. Not really surprised. Our offense is predictable and stagnant.

Been thinking about why this keeps happening and how different our offense looks whenever 2 is out. And I wondered how in the ****in hell a NFL OC called 4 run plays in the first half. The simple answer is he didn't. This is on 2. He's the one who made the calls to limit the run game.

1) Obviously 2 has a ton of control over what formations and play calls we are in. He's been doing it since his frosh year, and his dad lets him do it. It works out sometimes. But now that high level DCs have enough film on him, it's become a problem. The crazy thing is he has enough talent to still succeed.

2) He's a really smart guy that, every play, thinks he can have an answer for what the defense shows. It's become his downfall. To put it another way: 2 doesn't care about game plans or counter-counter moves, he only sees the game one play at a time.

3) He has a history of making what I'm calling "video game choices" that don't take the overall game situation into account. That pass call against NDSU in the 4th being the best example. Another one would be the USC game where he marched down the field at snails pace and gave us almost no shot to win the game despite scoring. He looks at the field, sees something, and chooses what he likes IN THAT MOMENT instead of sticking with the safe call that gets you 2d and 7 or 3d and 4. He's not even thinking 2 plays ahead. This makes our O predictable.

4) Until 2 accepts that it's a good idea to switch up from what he likes most and run the ball even when it's not the perfect look or even when he thinks he can pull one over on the D, he's gonna make things easy for the defense.

5) 2 aint ****in doin that. If last year's beat down didn't change his outlook, nothing will. From his press conference, no lightbulb has gone on.

6) We are going to sputter on offense all year and will be lucky to win 6 against this schedule. Nothing is going to change.

7) As always, doom.
 
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So, I didn't watch the game on Saturday. I was hoping to get home and enjoy a good football game, but I checked the score and saw the disaster that had unfolded in the first half. Not really surprised. Our offense is predictable and stagnant.

Been thinking about why this keeps happening and how different our offense looks whenever 2 is out. And I wondered how in the ****in hell a NFL OC called 4 run plays in the first half. The simple answer is he didn't. This is on 2. He's the one who made the calls to limit the run game.

1) Obviously 2 has a ton of control over what formations and play calls we are in. He's been doing it since his frosh year, and his dad lets him do it. It works out sometimes. But now that high level DCs have enough film on him, it's become a problem. The crazy thing is he has enough talent to still succeed.

2) He's a really smart guy that, every play, thinks he can have an answer for what the defense shows. It's become his downfall. To put it another way: 2 doesn't care about game plans or counter-counter moves, he only sees the game one play at a time.

3) He has a history of making what I'm calling "video game choices" that don't take the overall game situation into account. That pass call against NDSU in the 4th being the best example. Another one would be the USC game where he marched down the field at snails pace and gave us almost no shot to win the game despite scoring. He looks at the field, sees something, and chooses what he likes instead of sticking with the safe call that gets you 2d and 7 or 3d and 4. This makes our O predictable.

4) Until 2 accepts that it's a good idea to switch up from what he likes most and run the ball even when it's not the perfect look or even when he thinks he can pull one over on the D, he's gonna make things easy for the defense.

5) 2 aint ****in doin that. If last year's beat down didn't change his outlook, nothing will. From his press conference, no lightbulb has gone on.

6) We are going to sputter on offense all year and will be lucky to win 6 against this schedule. Nothing is going to change.

7) As always, doom.
Oh, you should rewatch. Quite Dorrellian

It all came into focus
 
Nicely put Darth. What we get with daddy ball and nepotism. No one is going to confront or even mention it. CP is always stating he trust 2 when he has the ball.
 
What suks is everyone sees the arm talent and accuracy. He can read a D pretty well, but he still has a lot to learn and needs to be coachable.
 
Thing is, they have a chance to win every game remaining on the schedule. Prior to the CP era, we couldn’t say that. The problem is, it will take a different approach to increase those chances and I’m not convinced they’ll do anything differently from here on out.
 
The sad thing is because of this, last years and this years O-lines are filled with serviceable lineman put in a very bad situation. They once again are taking the blame for it all, and that doesn't encourage great play going forward.
 
^this... a complete lack of creativity with any sort of pre-snap motions/shifts. All that speed and inability to run between the tackles, and it took 8 qtrs to see a jet sweep or push pass. Where are the RPO's? Is Shurmur stubborn, not with the times or would CP rather lose 'developing' SS2 vs win (compete) doing gimmicky cfb stuff?
I'm not in the room but it looks very much to me that Shurmur is being the good soldier and doing what Prime is telling him to do.

He's never been known as the most creative OC but to think that Shurmur doesn't know how to coordinate a running attack is simply ridiculous.

Was isn't ridiculous is to think that Prime is ignoring/wasting the decades of experience that Shurmur has controlling the ball on the ground in favor of thinking that he can win almost exclusively using his QB and WRs.

I don't want Shurmur as my head coach but to have him and not use what he knows about running the football is a massive waste.
 
One thing to add.

In modern football most teams put their best defensive athletes, the guys who are big, strong, and quick, on the edge as rushers. If all they have to do is go at the snap of the ball and attack the QB it doesn't matter how good your OTs are, they are going to get to the QB enough times to wreck an offense.

Without the real threat of a running game those guys are like sprinters to the QB. Have some success, even if it isn't the bulk of your offense, and you force them to check themselves at the snap of the ball. That one or two steps can make all the difference in the world in terms of the OT being able to block them and in terms of the QB being able to get the ball off where he wants it to go. At the same time those running plays let the QB take a moment or two and get himself back together mentally.

If defenses continue to be able to tee off on Shedeur he is going to get killed.
 
I'm not in the room but it looks very much to me that Shurmur is being the good soldier and doing what Prime is telling him to do.

He's never been known as the most creative OC but to think that Shurmur doesn't know how to coordinate a running attack is simply ridiculous.

Was isn't ridiculous is to think that Prime is ignoring/wasting the decades of experience that Shurmur has controlling the ball on the ground in favor of thinking that he can win almost exclusively using his QB and WRs.

I don't want Shurmur as my head coach but to have him and not use what he knows about running the football is a massive waste.
Shurmur is doing what every assistant coach does when the coaches son is on the team, nothing.
 
So, I didn't watch the game on Saturday. I was hoping to get home and enjoy a good football game, but I checked the score and saw the disaster that had unfolded in the first half. Not really surprised. Our offense is predictable and stagnant.

Been thinking about why this keeps happening and how different our offense looks whenever 2 is out. And I wondered how in the ****in hell a NFL OC called 4 run plays in the first half. The simple answer is he didn't. This is on 2. He's the one who made the calls to limit the run game.

1) Obviously 2 has a ton of control over what formations and play calls we are in. He's been doing it since his frosh year, and his dad lets him do it. It works out sometimes. But now that high level DCs have enough film on him, it's become a problem. The crazy thing is he has enough talent to still succeed.

2) He's a really smart guy that, every play, thinks he can have an answer for what the defense shows. It's become his downfall. To put it another way: 2 doesn't care about game plans or counter-counter moves, he only sees the game one play at a time.

3) He has a history of making what I'm calling "video game choices" that don't take the overall game situation into account. That pass call against NDSU in the 4th being the best example. Another one would be the USC game where he marched down the field at snails pace and gave us almost no shot to win the game despite scoring. He looks at the field, sees something, and chooses what he likes IN THAT MOMENT instead of sticking with the safe call that gets you 2d and 7 or 3d and 4. He's not even thinking 2 plays ahead. This makes our O predictable.

4) Until 2 accepts that it's a good idea to switch up from what he likes most and run the ball even when it's not the perfect look or even when he thinks he can pull one over on the D, he's gonna make things easy for the defense.

5) 2 aint ****in doin that. If last year's beat down didn't change his outlook, nothing will. From his press conference, no lightbulb has gone on.

6) We are going to sputter on offense all year and will be lucky to win 6 against this schedule. Nothing is going to change.

7) As always, doom.
I used to hate your doom posts but I can't argue anymore, program is fueled by ineptitude & nepotism
 
So, I didn't watch the game on Saturday. I was hoping to get home and enjoy a good football game, but I checked the score and saw the disaster that had unfolded in the first half. Not really surprised. Our offense is predictable and stagnant.

Been thinking about why this keeps happening and how different our offense looks whenever 2 is out. And I wondered how in the ****in hell a NFL OC called 4 run plays in the first half. The simple answer is he didn't. This is on 2. He's the one who made the calls to limit the run game.

1) Obviously 2 has a ton of control over what formations and play calls we are in. He's been doing it since his frosh year, and his dad lets him do it. It works out sometimes. But now that high level DCs have enough film on him, it's become a problem. The crazy thing is he has enough talent to still succeed.

2) He's a really smart guy that, every play, thinks he can have an answer for what the defense shows. It's become his downfall. To put it another way: 2 doesn't care about game plans or counter-counter moves, he only sees the game one play at a time.

3) He has a history of making what I'm calling "video game choices" that don't take the overall game situation into account. That pass call against NDSU in the 4th being the best example. Another one would be the USC game where he marched down the field at snails pace and gave us almost no shot to win the game despite scoring. He looks at the field, sees something, and chooses what he likes IN THAT MOMENT instead of sticking with the safe call that gets you 2d and 7 or 3d and 4. He's not even thinking 2 plays ahead. This makes our O predictable.

4) Until 2 accepts that it's a good idea to switch up from what he likes most and run the ball even when it's not the perfect look or even when he thinks he can pull one over on the D, he's gonna make things easy for the defense.

5) 2 aint ****in doin that. If last year's beat down didn't change his outlook, nothing will. From his press conference, no lightbulb has gone on.

6) We are going to sputter on offense all year and will be lucky to win 6 against this schedule. Nothing is going to change.

7) As always, doom.

Great post! It also strongly suggests Prime won't be here next and should not be. The priority is Shedeur and not team.

My #1 criterion for hiring the next coach is Rick George not making the hire. #2 is the next coach cannot have a son who plays QB. Daddy ball at QB is the absolute worst, as we know from two head coaches.
 
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I'm not in the room but it looks very much to me that Shurmur is being the good soldier and doing what Prime is telling him to do.

He's never been known as the most creative OC but to think that Shurmur doesn't know how to coordinate a running attack is simply ridiculous.

Was isn't ridiculous is to think that Prime is ignoring/wasting the decades of experience that Shurmur has controlling the ball on the ground in favor of thinking that he can win almost exclusively using his QB and WRs.

I don't want Shurmur as my head coach but to have him and not use what he knows about running the football is a massive waste.
Do we need to commit too and attempt to form some semblance of a run game? 1000%. Have we shown we can do this effectively specifically in '& short' down & distances, absolutely not.

There are other means to 'running the ball' without running the ball which Mike Leach, June Jones, & plenty of others have found success doing. With our talent/speed on the perimeters, we could essentially run Mesh (shallow crosses, see. CSU 2023 or BC vs FSU 2024) on repeat. Or how bout a designed rollout/bootleg to relieve pressure from up the middle? And again, an RPO w/ a TE leak on one of those 4th downs would've come handy...

But, none of the above is sexy to NFL scouts or translates directly to pro football in CP's mind, which is why we aren't seeing it and, what ultimately led to the demise of Sean Lewis (despite how many spread offense QB's are drafted year after year!)

This offense is one-dimensional, stagnant, and seemingly completely fails to (ever) have a back-pocket play to scheme something open when needed. But hey, scouts won't care about the mono-progression wide-open throws on SS2 draft tapes...
 
Do we need to commit too and attempt to form some semblance of a run game? 1000%. Have we shown we can do this effectively specifically in '& short' down & distances, absolutely not.

There are other means to 'running the ball' without running the ball which Mike Leach, June Jones, & plenty of others have found success doing. With our talent/speed on the perimeters, we could essentially run Mesh (shallow crosses, see. CSU 2023 or BC vs FSU 2024) on repeat. Or how bout a designed rollout/bootleg to relieve pressure from up the middle? And again, an RPO w/ a TE leak on one of those 4th downs would've come handy...

But, none of the above is sexy to NFL scouts or translates directly to pro football in CP's mind, which is why we aren't seeing it and, what ultimately led to the demise of Sean Lewis (despite how many spread offense QB's are drafted year after year!)

This offense is one-dimensional, stagnant, and seemingly completely fails to (ever) have a back-pocket play to scheme something open when needed. But hey, scouts won't care about the mono-progression wide-open throws on SS2 draft tapes...
And this is where CP is wrong.

I'm not going to look up the stats but on a recent NFL broadcast they were talking about how few NFL plays are actually thrown more than 15 yards downfield. The most effective offenses are very heavily tilted towards getting the ball out quickly into the hands of guys who control down and distance, move the chains, and if they can break a tackle or two then you get your chunk.
 
And this is where CP is wrong.

I'm not going to look up the stats but on a recent NFL broadcast they were talking about how few NFL plays are actually thrown more than 15 yards downfield. The most effective offenses are very heavily tilted towards getting the ball out quickly into the hands of guys who control down and distance, move the chains, and if they can break a tackle or two then you get your chunk.
I feel like this is where Chev (even Lindgren) exceeded. He knew our limitations and when we were faced with a tall task (Oregon 2016). Went in there pulling out all stops to at least try and put us in a position to win, or hang on for as long as possible with crafty formations and dialed up chunk plays. Instead, now all we get is a steady dose of bubble screens and a chance to see the far hash to numbers arm strength…
 
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I feel like this is where Chev (even Lindgren) exceeded. He knew our limitations and when we were faced with a tall task (Oregon 2016). Went in there pulling at all stops to at least try and put us in a position to win, or hang on for as long as possible with crafty formations and dialed up chunk plays. Instead, now all we get is a steady dose of bubble screens and a chance to see the far hash to numbers arm strength…
OK, we can be pissed about our current set up but whitewashing Chev is insane. Especially if you're upset about bubble screens.
 
OK, we can be pissed about our current set up but whitewashing Chev is insane. Especially if you're upset about bubble screens.
Chev was young, a good recruiter, and desperately wanted a P5 OC job.

There is a very good reason he never got one and it's all on the game films.
 
Chev was young, a good recruiter, and desperately wanted a P5 OC job.

There is a very good reason he never got one and it's all on the game films.
FTR, I never said Chev was the next Kyle Shanahan, or anything remotely close.

What I am saying is, the play calling to me looks like guys who were coaching for their jobs week to week vs someone coaching for their son.
 
So, I didn't watch the game on Saturday. I was hoping to get home and enjoy a good football game, but I checked the score and saw the disaster that had unfolded in the first half. Not really surprised. Our offense is predictable and stagnant.

Been thinking about why this keeps happening and how different our offense looks whenever 2 is out. And I wondered how in the ****in hell a NFL OC called 4 run plays in the first half. The simple answer is he didn't. This is on 2. He's the one who made the calls to limit the run game.

1) Obviously 2 has a ton of control over what formations and play calls we are in. He's been doing it since his frosh year, and his dad lets him do it. It works out sometimes. But now that high level DCs have enough film on him, it's become a problem. The crazy thing is he has enough talent to still succeed.

2) He's a really smart guy that, every play, thinks he can have an answer for what the defense shows. It's become his downfall. To put it another way: 2 doesn't care about game plans or counter-counter moves, he only sees the game one play at a time.

3) He has a history of making what I'm calling "video game choices" that don't take the overall game situation into account. That pass call against NDSU in the 4th being the best example. Another one would be the USC game where he marched down the field at snails pace and gave us almost no shot to win the game despite scoring. He looks at the field, sees something, and chooses what he likes IN THAT MOMENT instead of sticking with the safe call that gets you 2d and 7 or 3d and 4. He's not even thinking 2 plays ahead. This makes our O predictable.

4) Until 2 accepts that it's a good idea to switch up from what he likes most and run the ball even when it's not the perfect look or even when he thinks he can pull one over on the D, he's gonna make things easy for the defense.

5) 2 aint ****in doin that. If last year's beat down didn't change his outlook, nothing will. From his press conference, no lightbulb has gone on.

6) We are going to sputter on offense all year and will be lucky to win 6 against this schedule. Nothing is going to change.

7) As always, doom.
This is a really good post and the truth of it can be heard in 2's comments after the game where he is literally defending throwing it all the time and indicating it doesn't lead to more sacks. FYI, if you go listen to those comments just think about how those comments will impact his draft position. QBs that are talented but uncoachable don't make it in the league.
 
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