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We now take you to Ann Arbor Michigan

steviet said:
I find it interesting that Michigan was ready to suspend him last Saturday for lying to the President and AD about his knowledge of the scheme, but now seems to have forgotten that part since this evidence of other schools colluding has come out. I mean, the guy still lied to your face……
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One of the big bosses in my company who’s a substantial UMich booster was presented with your theory. He says that your intel was untrue. Their internal investigations have only been aimed at demonstrating the cheating by other programs. Suspending or even censuring Harbaugh was never in the cards.
 
scorched earth. burn the whole conference down. salt their fields, burn their villages, and subjugate their innocents.

justice must be done.

death, death, death penalty.

total recall Kuato GIF
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
Uhhhh none of that sounds illegal, but recording other teams signals does.
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It’s the same sh*t as “be careful in setting a precedent that allows the prosecution of political opponents because then all hell will break loose - even though my prosecution isn’t political - and I broke a bunch of laws and should be incarcerated - if it weren’t for politics!”
 
Unless Michigan has evidence that other teams had set up cameras and filmed other team's practices or game signals in-person, their argument is a irrelevant. Ohio State sending Purdue Michigan's signs is not against the rules. Hiring an investigative firm to gather evidence because you know/suspect your primary opponent is cheating is not against the rules.

There's a lot of dick swinging going on from the Michigan camp right now and I'm not sure exactly why. Well, I do know why, and it's because playing chicken with the B1G and NCAA is their only play. They will probably avoid a Harbaugh suspension this year because the B1G won't want to open a bigger bag of worms, and it will be up to the NCAA to actually drop the hammer with sanctions and show causes if there is the evidence to back it up.
 
This is hilarious. I know this is Harbaugh's personal lawyer defending Harbaugh, but it's basically an indirect admission that what Stalions was doing was, in fact, illegal.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1722408992851283976

Also, this guy is a nobody, but his point is valid. It's just strange that Michigan's strategy is responding by threatening scorched earth on the conference instead of proof that what they did was actually within the rules. Translation: What Stallions did was definitely against the rules, they know it, there's evidence that proves it, and they this is Michigan's last ditch effort to keep this season in tact.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1722387202540290466
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
This is hilarious. I know this is Harbaugh's personal lawyer defending Harbaugh, but it's basically an indirect admission that what Stalions was doing was, in fact, illegal.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1722408992851283976

Also, this guy is a nobody, but his point is valid. It's just strange that Michigan's strategy is responding by threatening scorched earth on the conference instead of proof that what they did was actually within the rules. Translation: What Stallions did was definitely against the rules, they know it, there's evidence that proves it, and they this is Michigan's last ditch effort to keep this season in tact.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1722387202540290466
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Good post but frankly it doesn't matter.

The fact that Michigan stated that they fired Stalions is a clear admission that Stalions was an employee of the university working for the athletic department.

NCAA rules have always been clear that ignorance of the actions of an employee is not a defense for a head coach. A head coach of an NCAA program, regardless of sport or level, is fully responsible for the actions of any employee of that athletic department working for that program. The rules even extend outside of employees in terms of responsibility for the actions of involved boosters.

It all falls under the heading of "Lack of institutional control." Stalions or people working with/for Stalions scouting opponents in person and giving that information to Harbaugh or any of his assistant coaches becomes a clear violation of a lack of institutional control. It doesn't matter if or how big an advantage they got from the information although they may factor that into the punishment.

It is simply not logically defensible to say that Michigan or Harbaugh didn't violate the rules, doesn't matter what other schools did.

Unfortunately you are correct in stating that the B1G will delay acting on this as long as possible, at least into the off-season as they don't want to put a potential playoff spot at risk and they don't want to do damage to one of their bellcow programs.
 
Buffnik said:
The ole "we break the rules even when it doesn't benefit us because fvck you and your rules" defense.
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Putting it another way, it would be like if I said that my stealing tampons isn't a real crime because they really didn't benefit me.
 
much of my snark aside, if meat-chicken walks away from this unscathed, the last tiny strands of belief in anything resembling fairness in cfb will be erased.

there is a big difference between a dude watching the other sideline and breaking signals and a dude going ****ing cia and digitally documenting and processing information.

just like there is a big ****ing difference between stealing a pitch call from 2nd and the ****ing astros videoing **** from the stands, decoding the pitch call, and then notifying the hitter via banging trashcans.

there are lines.

**** it.

assholes, the lot of them.

****ing try to play by something resembling fair play rules.
 
Daaah said:
Can anyone provide a concise summary of what Michigan did? I haven't been following this and I'm way behind. Every article I read makes assumptions about my knowledge that I don't have.

Someone other than mtn please.
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NCAA doesn't allow advance live scouting.

Michigan created a network, led by Stalion who was on their payroll, to attend games of teams that were on their schedule or potential postseason opponents. These scouts videotaped the sideline and used it to diagnose their play/audible signals. They then printed out graphic cards of the signals and stood with Michigan coaches during the game to tell them when they knew something was coming.

Also, allegations they shared the info with teams that were playing against teams they didn't want to have to face in the playoffs.

Also, this goes back several years. Not just last year and this one.
 
Buffnik said:
NCAA doesn't allow advance live scouting.

Michigan created a network, led by Stalion who was on their payroll, to attend games of teams that were on their schedule or potential postseason opponents. These scouts videotaped the sideline and used it to diagnose their play/audible signals. They then printed out graphic cards of the signals and stood with Michigan coaches during the game to tell them when they knew something was coming.

Also, allegations they shared the info with teams that were playing against teams they didn't want to have to face in the playoffs.

Also, this goes back several years. Not just last year and this one.
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Thanks, Nik. With that description, I think it's no big deal and you should assume that people are stealing your signals and disguise them.
 
How did I know we were going to be back to “Even though it’s cheating, it’s not that bad and teams should just have to deal with it” in this thread.
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
How did I know we were going to be back to “Even though it’s cheating, it’s not that bad and teams should just have to deal with it” in this thread.
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I was more bothered by it being the fault of the victims for not better protecting themselves. Like the folks focusing on the CU players who had their jewelry stolen (flashing it was advertising to criminals, should have secured it better, should have been insured) instead of focusing on the damn criminals.
 
Daaah said:
Thanks, Nik. With that description, I think it's no big deal and you should assume that people are stealing your signals and disguise them.
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Buying tickets to other teams' games, filming their signals and then overlaying those signals on the game film, making up cheat sheets so that Michigan knows exactly what play will be run, and then hiring someone to stand next to the OC when the team is is on offense and next to the DC when the Michigan is on defense so that they can base their playcalls on the other teams signals is pretty egregious, I think.

Film shows an opposing team signaling an offensive play, Michigan responding in a hurried way. The play is a screen and NOBODY rushed the quarterback. The entire defense just hung out at the line of scrimmage. It was weird to see.
 
Uncle Ken said:
Buying tickets to other teams' games, filming their signals and then overlaying those signals on the game film, making up cheat sheets so that Michigan knows exactly what play will be run, and then hiring someone to stand next to the OC when the team is is on offense and next to the DC when the Michigan is on defense so that they can base their playcalls on the other teams signals is pretty egregious, I think.

Film shows an opposing team signaling an offensive play, Michigan responding in a hurried way. The play is a screen and NOBODY rushed the quarterback. The entire defense just hung out at the line of scrimmage. It was weird to see.
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What's telling to me is how bothered by it the people in the profession are by this. Much more telling than fan, media or NCAA opinions on whether this crosses the line from gamesmanship to cheating. Reaction from peers has been that it's way over the line.
 
Uncle Ken said:
Buying tickets to other teams' games, filming their signals and then overlaying those signals on the game film, making up cheat sheets so that Michigan knows exactly what play will be run, and then hiring someone to stand next to the OC when the team is is on offense and next to the DC when the Michigan is on defense so that they can base their playcalls on the other teams signals is pretty egregious, I think.

Film shows an opposing team signaling an offensive play, Michigan responding in a hurried way. The play is a screen and NOBODY rushed the quarterback. The entire defense just hung out at the line of scrimmage. It was weird to see.
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facts from the mouths of the infidels. you have typed and composed a magnum opus of truth like that immortal monkey randomly banging on a keyboard for eternity.

also, **** the whole b10.
 
Buffnik said:
What's telling to me is how bothered by it the people in the profession are by this. Much more telling than fan, media or NCAA opinions on whether this crosses the line from gamesmanship to cheating. Reaction from peers has been that it's way over the line.
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because it is. michigan is already a super power in terms of resources. now you compare with purdue who isn't shabby in terms of funding but not even in the same galaxy as michigan. walters explained what he and his staff had to do to address this and they dont have 50 random analysts hanging around to fix things.

add in the fact that Michigan has been so sanctimoniously vocal about their superiority in morals to ohio state for starters and i think this whole is a dumpster fire.
 
steviet said:
My friend just told me that any Harbaugh suspension by the school appears to be off the table and, instead, Michigan is “going nuclear.” They will fight any punishment from the conference and release more information on other schools cheating. They are said to have hired “the top investigative law firm in the country“ to dig for more dirt and officially tie the PI firm back to OSU. Mutual assured destruction scenario…..
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Michael Richards Yes GIF
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
How did I know we were going to be back to “Even though it’s cheating, it’s not that bad and teams should just have to deal with it” in this thread.
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Possibly because that's the position HCDS took and a lot of fans on this message board find him credible on the subject of football and tend to follow his lead on these matters.
 
steviet said:
My friend just told me that any Harbaugh suspension by the school appears to be off the table and, instead, Michigan is “going nuclear.” They will fight any punishment from the conference and release more information on other schools cheating. They are said to have hired “the top investigative law firm in the country“ to dig for more dirt and officially tie the PI firm back to OSU. Mutual assured destruction scenario…..
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We’ll call the work product the Steal Dossier.

im having trouble deciding which is more dirty, US politics or college football
 
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