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What would it take for you to be pro-Dorrell?

Makes it a point to hire the WR coach as a recruiter first

OC must be innovative and not force a 90’s type offense on them. I don’t care if they are G5/NFL/P5, but get someone who is a rising star

Go big on Oline coach. Can’t go cheap here

Get to a bowl game next year with a top 30 recruiting class

Get at least 5 impact transfers

Stop saying you are building boys to be men and your first quality in looking for assistant coaches is a teacher. Admit that recruiting is the life blood of the program
 
Just checked one of the recruiting services for the latest ranking. CU is 40th based on aggregate star value and 52nd based on average star value per recruit. Using the 6pt rating scale, CUs recruits are very tightly bunched with all 16 current commits between 5.4 and 5.7.

Looking like another bottom quadrant finish in the PAC12. Oh, and they’re currently being out-recruited by Arizona. Let that sink in.

Frustrated George Costanza GIF
 
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What these comments illustrate is that the “well of good will” for Karl Dorrell was about two feet deep when he was hired, about six inches now, and will run completely dry if he doesn’t win next year. I have never seen a hire have such little enthusiasm from the get go.
 
Creebuzz said:
What these comments illustrate is that the “well of good will” for Karl Dorrell was about two feet deep when he was hired, about six inches now, and will run completely dry if he doesn’t win next year. I have never seen a hire have such little enthusiasm from the get go.
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He's as bad a hire as we've had, with none of the saving graces of the only hire worse than him in recent memory, Embree. Only Embree was obviously worse on paper, and he had Mac's blessing. Also, our fan base still had irrational hope about Buffs coming home and leading the program. That is now largely gone, outside of some fine fellows on 247.

Shorter: we are all now in put up or shut up. The put up is not happening.
 
bigbang2 said:
I like KD demeanor as a coach. The parents and students like him that is all that matters. A bunch of grumpy old men is the minority. All that matters to me is wins and he running the program with class. After say that he has to win next year to keep his job.
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What demeanor are you referring to? And "students"? Do you mean players/recruits? I have it on pretty good authority that HS recruits and coaches find the guy pretty damn MEH.
 
Bill Cody said:
I typically would agree with this, but after this last season, competence needs to be part of the question being answered IMO. Any decent coach should be able to find a way .500 in year 3 in cfb. If he’s going to come in and blow up a decent recruiting infrastructure in favor of whatever this is, then results are the only way to measure ‘his’ process.
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Obviously wins matter. There’s a proven process in college football to create a great program and win games: recruit the best players and the best assistant coaches. Honestly, if the HC does that, even if they’re not competent coaches, they’ll still win 7-9 games a year.
 
manhattanbuff said:
Obviously wins matter. There’s a proven process in college football to create a great program and win games: recruit the best players and the best assistant coaches. Honestly, if the HC does that, even if they’re not competent coaches, they’ll still win 7-9 games a year.
Click to expand...
Sat down and shot the sh!t with Gary Barnett back in the day and he said this was his base philosophy. Said the key was surrounding himself with coaches smarter than him and not get in their way.
 
Recruiting, recruiting, recruiting.

In his introductory press conference, the man had to be reminded that recruiting was part of the job.

To get me on board, he needs to demonstrate in both words and deeds that he now understands that it is a critical priority.

In no particular order:
  • Hire an actual 21st century recruiting coordinator
  • Identify and target recruits that other successful P5 programs want
  • Fire ACs that underperform in recruiting, even if their performance in other areas is otherwise acceptable
  • Hire ACs that will recruit, recruit, recruit
  • Build an infrastructure of support for those ACs, this includes:
    • Hiring travel support experts to make being on the road less onerous for the ACs
    • Hiring top notch graphics, video and social media folks that can give the ACs dazzling "digital swag" for the recruits essentially on-demand
    • Hiring campus visit coordinators that support parents/recruits who are making both official *and* "unofficial" visits (this is one of the most specific and spectacular failures in recruiting so far)
    • Hiring academic advisors/evaluators that can quickly (ideally in an hour or two, but <24 hours would probably be acceptable) and accurately determine a. if a recruit can be admitted, and/or b. what they would need to do in order to be admitted.
  • Hire social media experts to support every coach in their recruiting efforts

If he does half the things on that list, I'll be shocked. In fact, I'll be surprised if he even does one or two.
 
6-8 wins a year. For the next few years. Not a high bar to clear. Going .500 is a pretty low floor. Winning 8 is a challenge. But you want me to be pro-Dorrell, or any Buff coach, that seems to be a reasonable goal for success. What has been going on since 2005 is simply not acceptable. I will always be a fan, but expecting me to pony up for tickets and gear etc. when the results remain incredibly poor, at some point, becomes rewarding sub-mediocrity, and I won't do it.
 
manhattanbuff said:
Obviously wins matter. There’s a proven process in college football to create a great program and win games: recruit the best players and the best assistant coaches. Honestly, if the HC does that, even if they’re not competent coaches, they’ll still win 7-9 games a year.
Click to expand...
No disagreement. My point is that CU as an institution seemingly will not support the investment it takes to acquire/achieve what you're referring to....so I have given up on seeing them check those boxes. I'm left hoping the results are achieved despite it.
 
bigbang2 said:
I like KD demeanor as a coach. The parents and students like him that is all that matters. A bunch of grumpy old men is the minority. All that matters to me is wins and he running the program with class. After say that he has to win next year to keep his job.
Click to expand...
Being liked by parents and students(?) isn’t all that matters and perhaps the worst character trait HCKD has is his odd, stoic, robot-like demeanor. That might work as an NFL assistant coach but it isn’t what motivates 18-22yo players.
 
Bill Cody said:
No disagreement. My point is that CU as an institution seemingly will not support the investment it takes to acquire/achieve what you're referring to....so I have given up on seeing them check those boxes. I'm left hoping the results are achieved despite it.
Click to expand...
If the Head Coach and AD demands that the recruiting infrastructure be put in place, the people above will follow suit. A feckless AD isn’t going to do this. A true leader at AD can persuade all stakeholders to make the necessary changes.
 
manhattanbuff said:
If the Head Coach and AD demands that the recruiting infrastructure be put in place, the people above will follow suit. A feckless AD isn’t going to do this. A true leader at AD can persuade all stakeholders to make the necessary changes.
Click to expand...
Again, I agree. So the answer to the question "What would it take for you to be pro-Dorrell"? = KD assertively gives RG a kick in the ass to invest in recruiting and assistants. That would do it for me, but I also don't see it happening.
 
skibum said:
Recruiting, recruiting, recruiting.

In his introductory press conference, the man had to be reminded that recruiting was part of the job.

To get me on board, he needs to demonstrate in both words and deeds that he now understands that it is a critical priority.

In no particular order:
  • Hire an actual 21st century recruiting coordinator
  • Identify and target recruits that other successful P5 programs want
  • Fire ACs that underperform in recruiting, even if their performance in other areas is otherwise acceptable
  • Hire ACs that will recruit, recruit, recruit
  • Build an infrastructure of support for those ACs, this includes:
    • Hiring travel support experts to make being on the road less onerous for the ACs
    • Hiring top notch graphics, video and social media folks that can give the ACs dazzling "digital swag" for the recruits essentially on-demand
    • Hiring campus visit coordinators that support parents/recruits who are making both official *and* "unofficial" visits (this is one of the most specific and spectacular failures in recruiting so far)
    • Hiring academic advisors/evaluators that can quickly (ideally in an hour or two, but <24 hours would probably be acceptable) and accurately determine a. if a recruit can be admitted, and/or b. what they would need to do in order to be admitted.
  • Hire social media experts to support every coach in their recruiting efforts

If he does half the things on that list, I'll be shocked. In fact, I'll be surprised if he even does one or two.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much where I am at as well. The thing with CU football in the post neutered age is that we can expect to be disappointed. getting rid of chev and gumbo guy were good staff moves. the pace at which they happened was pure CU.

It is definitely going to have to be a building process. I would focus on key themes:

1. we must recruit competitively to be competitive (duh).
2. we must develop players and depth, especially focused on the lines.
3. we must be willing to evaluate our efforts and address gaps quickly, whether coaches or otherwise.
3. we must provide the resources and infrastructure to achieve the first 3.
4. to the extent there is a gap in funding these goals, we must articulate a plan, attach the cost delta, and ask for the money.

i don't care about his sideline demeanor. i don't especially care about actually winning games over the next two years. if we make the investment to do the stuff above, like we did when Coach Mac came on board, we will turn the corner and win.
 
Bill Cody said:
Again, I agree. So the answer to the question "What would it take for you to be pro-Dorrell"? = KD assertively gives RG a kick in the ass to invest in recruiting and assistants. That would do it for me, but I also don't see it happening.
Click to expand...
KD immediately dismantled the recruiting structure Mel had put in place. He absolutely will not do it because he’s not a recruiter by nature. Some guys just have the juice (McCartney, Dabo, Tucker to name just a few). KD clearly does not have that. That’s why it’s so disappointing that former recruiting coordinator Rick George would hire him. KD appears to be a very good person. Unfortunately that won’t make our program better.
 
7 wins in 2022.

I'll leave the rest of you weirdos to argue about recruiting and other matters.
 
steviet said:
KD immediately dismantled the recruiting structure Mel had put in place. He absolutely will not do it because he’s not a recruiter by nature. Some guys just have the juice (McCartney, Dabo, Tucker to name just a few). KD clearly does not have that. That’s why it’s so disappointing that former recruiting coordinator Rick George would hire him. KD appears to be a very good person. Unfortunately that won’t make our program better.
Click to expand...
It's amazing to me how often it's useful to talk about scorpions and frogs.
 
steviet said:
KD immediately dismantled the recruiting structure Mel had put in place. He absolutely will not do it because he’s not a recruiter by nature. Some guys just have the juice (McCartney, Dabo, Tucker to name just a few). KD clearly does not have that. That’s why it’s so disappointing that former recruiting coordinator Rick George would hire him. KD appears to be a very good person. Unfortunately that won’t make our program better.
Click to expand...
RG did this before Dorrell got to CU.
 
steviet said:
KD immediately dismantled the recruiting structure Mel had put in place. He absolutely will not do it because he’s not a recruiter by nature. Some guys just have the juice (McCartney, Dabo, Tucker to name just a few). KD clearly does not have that. That’s why it’s so disappointing that former recruiting coordinator Rick George would hire him. KD appears to be a very good person. Unfortunately that won’t make our program better.
Click to expand...

patebuff said:
RG did this before Dorrell got to CU.
Click to expand...
assuming that either one of these is true....

and acknowledging that the previous recruiting structure was replaced by essentially nothing...

and (acknowledging their flaws but) assuming that neither KD or RG are outright stupid people...

my conclusion almost has to be that MT's "recruiting structure" was doing something beyond NCAA limits. I don't think they'd dismantle something for no reason that appeared from the outside to be working.
 
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