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Baylor Rape HQ - (major lawsuit settled)
- Thread starter Buffnik
- Start date
Dog they all know, maybe some more than others, but they knew. Good post though.
See? This is the kind of Bulls.hit that annoys the Hell out of me on this site. Nobody, anywhere is claiming that "common decency" is the higher moral standard that is being applied to Baylor. You just pulled that straight out of the thin blue sky and decided to act all pissed off about it.
My response would be,
I think you are missing the intent of what others are trying to say here. Christianity advocates certain morals. These aren't necessarily different than yours or anyone else. However those morals are defined, publicized, and preached. What people here are trying to say, at least what I think they are trying to say, is that if you are going to promote yourself as a baptist university, if you are going to associate yourself with the church, then you will rightly be judged by your ability to stick to those morals.
This whole matter isn't a christian vs non christian issue though. This is a human issue. Christian or not you don't let people get away with sexual assault/rape/murder. Period. I don't care what you gain from looking the other way.
As far as where the religious side of things comes into play, I would expect/hope to see a renouncement from the National Baptist Convention. What ever monetary support Baylor receives from that organization should disappear and should lose the ability to market themselves as a baptist school.
My response would be,
I think you are missing the intent of what others are trying to say here. Christianity advocates certain morals. These aren't necessarily different than yours or anyone else. However those morals are defined, publicized, and preached. What people here are trying to say, at least what I think they are trying to say, is that if you are going to promote yourself as a baptist university, if you are going to associate yourself with the church, then you will rightly be judged by your ability to stick to those morals.
This whole matter isn't a christian vs non christian issue though. This is a human issue. Christian or not you don't let people get away with sexual assault/rape/murder. Period. I don't care what you gain from looking the other way.
As far as where the religious side of things comes into play, I would expect/hope to see a renouncement from the National Baptist Convention. What ever monetary support Baylor receives from that organization should disappear and should lose the ability to market themselves as a baptist school.
Not gonna happen. Baylor is an arm of the Baptist Church. The two are actually part of the same organization.
Heck, all they had to do was follow their own written policies and abide by state & federal laws. There wasn't even a difficult choice we're talking about. Instead, it was willfully going against those things and basic morality because winning games & making money had become their gods. Anything that served those gods is "good" and anything that hindered those gods is "bad". That is the "higher morality" of Baylor.
That would have been sweet if DBT had written that, and not something else entirely. I would have totally agreed.My response would be,
I think you are missing the intent of what others are trying to say here. Christianity advocates certain morals. These aren't necessarily different than yours or anyone else. However those morals are defined, publicized, and preached. What people here are trying to say, at least what I think they are trying to say, is that if you are going to promote yourself as a baptist university, if you are going to associate yourself with the church, then you will rightly be judged by your ability to stick to those morals.
This whole matter isn't a christian vs non christian issue though. This is a human issue. Christian or not you don't let people get away with sexual assault/rape/murder. Period. I don't care what you gain from looking the other way.
As far as where the religious side of things comes into play, I would expect/hope to see a renouncement from the National Baptist Convention. What ever monetary support Baylor receives from that organization should disappear and should lose the ability to market themselves as a baptist school.
And they are the ones who said they followed a higher standard than the law or even "common decency."
They very publicly set the standard by which they are going to be judged.
Maybe a way to correct this miscommunication is to change the language. Instead of higher standard (implying a lower standard), we should go with documented vs assumed standards.
If I go work for a fortune 500 company, or work for Orr, I'm going to assume it's probably frowned upon to murder somebody while working. However, I'm not sure how Orr or my company feels about me taking the Lord's name in vain when I think a coworker does something really stupid. Or if I could get fired for thinking a potential client is hot. Or if I need to wear a suit and tie to work on casual Friday. I would not want to get fired for doing something that I assume is ok. I would flip through that new hire packet to ensure I'm familiar with my company's standards so I can align myself or be higher at all times.
Non-Secular establishments (such as Baylor) have a very clear doctrine which provides them with their values, or standards. That's what makes it so obvious when they are broken. Their new hire packet is pretty darn clear and open for everyone to read, not just new hires.
Orr, I actually agree with you in a lot of ways. I hate the term, "held to a higher standard" in this regard. Baylor is held to Baylor's standard. That may not be as high as mine. It may be way higher than mine. I probably think some of the things in Baylor's standard are archaic; But it's public, and documented what their standard should be. I have no idea what your standard is, just like you have no idea about mine. But we all know Baylor's. And they screwed the pooch.
I just want us all to realize we're fighting for the same thing, the right to say F**k Baylor. I too, am shocked not only at what's happened, but the lack of remorse from anyone directly involved. We haven't even seen Baylor admit there is a problem yet...how are we supposed to feel confident they're going to get it fixed?
F**k Baylor
If I go work for a fortune 500 company, or work for Orr, I'm going to assume it's probably frowned upon to murder somebody while working. However, I'm not sure how Orr or my company feels about me taking the Lord's name in vain when I think a coworker does something really stupid. Or if I could get fired for thinking a potential client is hot. Or if I need to wear a suit and tie to work on casual Friday. I would not want to get fired for doing something that I assume is ok. I would flip through that new hire packet to ensure I'm familiar with my company's standards so I can align myself or be higher at all times.
Non-Secular establishments (such as Baylor) have a very clear doctrine which provides them with their values, or standards. That's what makes it so obvious when they are broken. Their new hire packet is pretty darn clear and open for everyone to read, not just new hires.
Orr, I actually agree with you in a lot of ways. I hate the term, "held to a higher standard" in this regard. Baylor is held to Baylor's standard. That may not be as high as mine. It may be way higher than mine. I probably think some of the things in Baylor's standard are archaic; But it's public, and documented what their standard should be. I have no idea what your standard is, just like you have no idea about mine. But we all know Baylor's. And they screwed the pooch.
I just want us all to realize we're fighting for the same thing, the right to say F**k Baylor. I too, am shocked not only at what's happened, but the lack of remorse from anyone directly involved. We haven't even seen Baylor admit there is a problem yet...how are we supposed to feel confident they're going to get it fixed?
F**k Baylor
Thank God that someone was finally able to articulate it. Reading Orr, Sacky, DBT and others bumble around for 2 pages trying to interpret what was said and crying about who is insulted was getting ridiculous.My response would be,
I think you are missing the intent of what others are trying to say here. Christianity advocates certain morals. These aren't necessarily different than yours or anyone else. However those morals are defined, publicized, and preached. What people here are trying to say, at least what I think they are trying to say, is that if you are going to promote yourself as a baptist university, if you are going to associate yourself with the church, then you will rightly be judged by your ability to stick to those morals.
This whole matter isn't a christian vs non christian issue though. This is a human issue. Christian or not you don't let people get away with sexual assault/rape/murder. Period. I don't care what you gain from looking the other way.
As far as where the religious side of things comes into play, I would expect/hope to see a renouncement from the National Baptist Convention. What ever monetary support Baylor receives from that organization should disappear and should lose the ability to market themselves as a baptist school.
Well they sold their soul, am I rite? Kidding yourself if you think they didn't know. To me, that's the biggest transgression of all. Anybody with integrity would have said, hell something? They knew and did nothing.
Again, what STS said was unrelated to DBT's post. Sorry, but I'm gonna continue crying.
**** baylor
In all honestly, I believe DBT meant exactly what S2S said, but didn't articulate it well, and you are arguing over the way he said it, just to argue. I don't believe that DBT actually thinks Christians have a higher moral standard simply because they're Christians. Maybe I'm wrong and that's exactly what he meant. In that case, I apologize to you.
Edit: **** bailer!
I'm having a really hard time articulating it well, for sure.
First and foremost, **** baylor.
Despite your attempts (and STS's, and Sacky's and Mtn.'s) to explain that explain that DBT meant something completely unrelated to what he said, I don't believe. I've been down this "morally superior, 'cause Christian" road before with DBT before. I suspect he meant exactly what he said in this case.
I don't believe for a second that he meant to be insulting, and I don't think he thought about it before he said it. But I think his words were pretty clear (he even through in a "rightly so" to emphasize that Christian organizations should be held to a higher standard).
"Higher standard" is always comparative. If an American soldier says, "we can't kill civilians because we're held to a higher standard", it's clear that the enemy is held to a lower standard.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure I'm done on the topic. In the future, you can just let DBT explain what he means, instead of trying to convince me that he meant something completely different.
I read it as the morals are mostly the same, but Christians think they operate at a higher standard. And their assumption that they do infers judgement by them that non Christians do not.
Almost forgot, the ****ing of Baylor is good.
CVBuff
Well-Known Member
The major difference that I see is that the religious proclaim through there committment that they have certain values, those that are not religious rarely affix there morals to a written or formal standard. When someone embraces a moral code of conduct and proclaims that it is divine, it then opens them up to charges of hypocracy when they behave far differently. Hypocracy isn't an issue for the non-religious. That is why, in my opinion, Baylor gets an extra heap of condemnation for there eyes blinded by gold and glory, as does BYU for depressing reporting and letting its rapists skate by persecuting innocent sexual assault victims with threatened suspension and expulsion when they file a complaint. Does that mean that the religious have a higher standard? Maybe, sometimes. In my experience, rarely. But it does mean that they are held to a higher standard.
Mods please change the handle of all Christian board members to MotherSuperiorBuff. Thanks!
Hypocrisy isn't an issue for non religious?
CVBuff
Well-Known Member
Good point. Of course, just about every politician who says he's for the little guy, or states that she is honest is a hypocrite. But for the average individual who never stands up publicly for much, hypocracy is rarely raised as an issue by the media for moral failings.
Swish
Half a bubble off
Personally I have no issue with what you are saying. Generally I do no think "Christians" have a higher moral standard than others. I have personally read the scriptures many times. I tend to believe the bible does have a higher moral standard, but the devil here is in the details. I find most Christians really don't follow the bible, most probably couldn't tell you the location of even five of the most famous bible quotes. As a result they don't really follow the bible's moral code.
Case in point - I'm pretty sure the scriptures say that it is wrong to use bad language. How many Christians on this board opposed the language restrictions on this board when they were put in place? The higher moral standard is in place - but is it practiced by those who claim to represent it? This is just one example among the many - such as fornication, greed, anger, begin honest about filing taxes, etc....
Going further - I believe that the good book also says that the lord isn't partial and that a man can be a law unto himself. I translate that into - no one has a license on good morals - we can all have them to a greater or lesser degree. It depends on what code we choose to follow and how closely we choose to follow it.
For the most part I do not have much regard for mainstream Christianity, I do not think that is any mystery here on Allbuffs. I think they really don't practice what they claim to champion. Baylor is a horrific, but effective example of my opinion on the matter. And the fact that the Waco Newspaper would publish such soul-less rubbish in an obviously Baptist community, is an indication that the members of the community generally support their school, even with such terrible things going on. No condemnation from the Baptist convention. No withdrawal of support from that same group. This comes as not surprise to me.
I am not interested in attacking any individual or insulting anyone on this board. Each of you may be a very moral person for all I know. If you are Christian you may go to a church that performs many great works and has many fine people. I know they are out there. I just say, look at what Christians are doing collectively. Their actions do not come close to measuring up to the code the good book actually advocates.
****bailer's actions just add fuel to this fire from my point of view.
What you said is what my point was. And to Burrito, anyone can be a hypocrite.
Yes they can, I've been being one. Anybody can be a hypocrite.