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CU has rejoined the Big 12 and broken college football - talking out asses continues

Victory said:
Entering in NFL Sunday Ticket, MLB TV and NBA Pass as exhibits 1A, 1B and 1C as proof that live sports can thrive on PPV subscription services.

You’re using the word relegated but it’s the wrong word. I wouldn’t use that word. They’re choosing to take advantage of free market economics and modern technology to connect into people’s homes. And they get paid to do so.

Yes you can watch the home team regionally for free (sometimes) but for out of town folks like myself you need these subscriptions. These brands aren’t buried.

This is exactly the opportunity the Pac-12 Network had time and time again and refused to capitalize on it.
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I would also say the subscription services you brought up are entirely different from how CFB is consumed. MLB and NBA are regional sports for the most part and the NFL puts their top matchups in each time slot on national broadcasts, along with having 3 prime time national broadcasts per week. Jacksonville vs Houston gets buried to regional only on CBS at 1pm ET, but that doesn't really matter because Jacksonville and Houston are both going to make the exact same amount of money from media rights as Dallas, Denver, New York, Green Bay, LA, KC, etc. Viewership and ratings doesn't really matter for the success of individual NFL teams like it does for all CFB programs.
 
Victory said:
We are absolutely going in the streaming route. And it was by choice. The P12 made that decision when we turned down ESPN and Fox a while back. Likely to cash in on the P12N.

Was it the right move? It doesn’t seem like it now but let’s see the cards first before we throw them away.

This commissioner, who I advocated to be fired a few pages back btw, has a background at MLB digital. I would be surprised if our deal doesn’t include some subscription model along with exposure on traditional media (linear concepts) like we see with MLB, NFL, etc.
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My man, if you think the Pac 12 is in this position today because they were playing some kind of 6D chess with the Pac 12N, you are simply not being objective.
 
Victory said:
We are absolutely going in the streaming route. And it was by choice. The P12 made that decision when we turned down ESPN and Fox a while back. Likely to cash in on the P12N.

Was it the right move? It doesn’t seem like it now but let’s see the cards first before we throw them away.

This commissioner, who I advocated to be fired a few pages back btw, has a background at MLB digital. I would be surprised if our deal doesn’t include some subscription model along with exposure on traditional media (linear concepts) like we see with MLB, NFL, etc.
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Holy fook !! The P12 turned down that deal a while back because their arrogance got in the way and overvalued their perception of the conference.
 
Victory said:
Entering in NFL Sunday Ticket, MLB TV and NBA Pass as exhibits 1A, 1B and 1C as proof that live sports can thrive on PPV subscription services.

You’re using the word relegated but it’s the wrong word. I wouldn’t use that word. They’re choosing to take advantage of free market economics and modern technology to connect into people’s homes. And they get paid to do so.

Yes you can watch the home team regionally for free (sometimes) but for out of town folks like myself you need these subscriptions. These brands aren’t buried.

This is exactly the opportunity the Pac-12 Network had time and time again and refused to capitalize on it.
Click to expand...

You know what? You still have to pay for electricity in order to power the TV or mobile devices in order to view the games so it still costs money to watch games anyway which is something people are used to doing anyway. People will find a way to be entertained one way or another even if it means PPV sports games.

As for the P12N refusing to capitalize on it, I have exhibit A which is the media rights deal that Larry Scott put together which didn't allow the P12N to be its own streaming platform for the duration of the deal. Hope GK doesn't mess up this deal as well.
 
Victory said:
Then why turn down that deal last year from ESPN and Fox?
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Are you referring to them turning down the ESPN offer to buy the P12N? I'm not familiar with them turning down a full blown media deal with ESPN and FOX. Can you link?

Edit: Found what I think you're referring to... The Pac 12 left the exclusive rights negotiating window without reaching a deal with ESPN or Fox. That is entirely different from turning down ESPN and Fox. The report said they were "hundreds of millions" apart in their offers and what the P12 was willing to accept.

The Pac 12 took its rights to the open market because they thought they could get more with more bidders. That was almost a year ago.
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
You don't know this. Notable brands don't get buried because to this point, the networks with mass distribution have been in charge of their exposure. Live sports has never been fully relegated to PPV premium subscription services, so saying "notable brands won't get buried" (on streaming) is just more talking out of the ass.
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I trust that Apple and Amazon know how to market to digital consumers and know how to drive fence sitters to adopt new technologies. They're kind of good at this and have the resources to buy market share.
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
Are you referring to them turning down the ESPN offer to buy the P12N? I'm not familiar with them turning down a full blown media deal with ESPN and FOX. Can you link?

Edit: Found what I think you're referring to... The Pac 12 left the exclusive rights negotiating window without reaching a deal with ESPN or Fox. That is entirely different from turning down ESPN and Fox. The report said they were "hundreds of millions" apart in their offers and what the P12 was willing to accept.

The Pac 12 took its rights to the open market because they thought they could get more with more bidders. That was almost a year ago.
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I believe the P12 was originally offered the $31M per deal first but we turned it down. I’ve seen & heard Wilner and Canzano reference that before. I don’t have a link but I can look for the reference later.
 
some of you are still not enlightened nor have you atoned for your grievous errors.

there is no proof that the p12 refused a deal because of its "arrogance."

there is no proof that the p12 overvalued itself.

there is no proof that the p12 would have already signed if there was any deal available for them to sign.

maybe, and follow along here for a moment, if you will... maybe, the p12 set out its goals with potential partners and some of those partners have countered. and maybe in an effort to reach a win/win, maybe the negotiating parties are working very hard together to find something that everyone wants to do.

not everything is absolute and scorched earth.

we can surmise from the delays that there have been some hiccups and probably some possible partners have come and gone. we can surmise that the deal is complex and likely not going to look like a traditional conference tv deal.

stay tuned before declaring the pac dead and CU a new member of this truck stop 12.

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Liver said:
some of you are still not enlightened nor have you atoned for your grievous errors.

there is no proof that the p12 refused a deal because of its "arrogance."

there is no proof that the p12 overvalued itself.

there is no proof that the p12 would have already signed if there was any deal available for them to sign.

maybe, and follow along here for a moment, if you will... maybe, the p12 set out its goals with potential partners and some of those partners have countered. and maybe in an effort to reach a win/win, maybe the negotiating parties are working very hard together to find something that everyone wants to do.

not everything is absolute and scorched earth.

we can surmise from the delays that there have been some hiccups and probably some possible partners have come and gone. we can surmise that the deal is complex and likely not going to look like a traditional conference tv deal.

stay tuned before declaring the pac dead and CU a new member of this truck stop 12.

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I’d like to think that’s the case, but the more time that passes, the less likely that scenario seems to be and the more likely that the conference leadership is just fumbling about with no clear direction.
 
InTheBuff said:
Because their arrogance got in the way and overvalued their perception of the conference.
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Hundreds of millions of dollars apart might also have meant 15 million per school, 15 year agreement…

If they’d signed that youd be apoplectic along with everyone else here.
 
Not Sure said:
I’d like to think that’s the case, but the more time that passes, the less likely that scenario seems to be and the more likely that the conference leadership is just fumbling about with no clear direction.
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If that was the case, CU would have left already.

I believe that something is cooking and both sides have agreed in principle on a deal structure. That we're in the lawyering, fine points and final tweaks of the numbers stage. Deals do fall apart at this stage, but I believe that we're there or someone would have bailed by now.
 
Not Sure said:
I’d like to think that’s the case, but the more time that passes, the less likely that scenario seems to be and the more likely that the conference leadership is just fumbling about with no clear direction.
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There is no evidence one way or the other, but the perception is the P12-2 can't get a media partner to pay anything worth signing, right now. Sure, a great deal can still be had, but as you say, the longer it drags on, the less likely. It is hard to come up with a reason to think otherwise when you are the butt of jokes from the Buc-ee's conference because you close a deal on your product....
 
Buffnik said:
If that was the case, CU would have left already.

I believe that something is cooking and both sides have agreed in principle on a deal structure. That we're in the lawyering, fine points and final tweaks of the numbers stage. Deals do fall apart at this stage, but I believe that we're there or someone would have bailed by now.
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But Nik, deals worth millions to billions of dollars don’t take time. And good negotiators don’t wait. I just hope the MWC will let us replace SDSU if we call them right now.
 
MiamiBuffs said:
Hundreds of millions of dollars apart might also have meant 15 million per school, 15 year agreement…

If they’d signed that youd be apoplectic along with everyone else here.
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I could have seen ESPN say they wanted an ACC type term & structure and GOR once Fox left the table. I could see that being spun as "walking away from hundreds of millions" when the Pac-12 members rejected it.
 
Victory said:
I believe the P12 was originally offered the $31M per deal first but we turned it down. I’ve seen & heard Wilner and Canzano reference that before. I don’t have a link but I can look for the reference later.
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I believe they were offered the same money as the Big XII during the exclusive negotiating window. They also pushed some kind of merger and the Pac 12 walked away. The Pac 12 thought they could do better, and went to market. The initial offer if off the table, which certainly implies the current offer is less.

This would be why people say the Pac 12 is arrogant, and overvalued itself. Now it seems like they're working hard to get back to square one, and I don't think they'll manage that. Not to mention you have the Comcast overpayments hanging over your head. Meanwhile you have Canzano on the LockedOn Pac 12 podcast saying that SMU might take no media distribution for a year and its boosters may pay off the comcast deal just to get in.

In what world is that a sane line of thought?

Wilner, Canzano, and that Tony Altimore have been weird throughout this whole thing, and the amount of sunshine pumping they do for the Pac 12 boggles my mind. They seem to want to blame the Big XII when the BIG fired the kill shot. I think Wilner even said back in March or April if this deal drags on, the worse it looks for the conference. I think he said Odds of Pac 12 surviving were like 75% sure it would, but every week this goes on it would decrease by 5% (something along those lines, I can't quite remember). Either way he ignored his own metrics and bottomed out at 60% survival.

Does anyone really think this is good that it has taken this long? Is there any kind of positive spin? Especially when you take into account the considerable ineptitude the Pac leadership has demonstrated over the last decade?
 
Now that he is a "Hall of Famer", has that extra swagger and bounce in his step, we should send Phil DiSteff to meet with the media, and get this done.

Black tracksuit, Silver Nikes, Gold chains.
 
Dr Ship said:
I believe they were offered the same money as the Big XII during the exclusive negotiating window. They also pushed some kind of merger and the Pac 12 walked away. The Pac 12 thought they could do better, and went to market. The initial offer if off the table, which certainly implies the current offer is less.

This would be why people say the Pac 12 is arrogant, and overvalued itself. Now it seems like they're working hard to get back to square one, and I don't think they'll manage that. Not to mention you have the Comcast overpayments hanging over your head. Meanwhile you have Canzano on the LockedOn Pac 12 podcast saying that SMU might take no media distribution for a year and its boosters may pay off the comcast deal just to get in.

In what world is that a sane line of thought?

Wilner, Canzano, and that Tony Altimore have been weird throughout this whole thing, and the amount of sunshine pumping they do for the Pac 12 boggles my mind. They seem to want to blame the Big XII when the BIG fired the kill shot. I think Wilner even said back in March or April if this deal drags on, the worse it looks for the conference. I think he said Odds of Pac 12 surviving were like 75% sure it would, but every week this goes on it would decrease by 5% (something along those lines, I can't quite remember). Either way he ignored his own metrics and bottomed out at 60% survival.

Does anyone really think this is good that it has taken this long? Is there any kind of positive spin? Especially when you take into account the considerable ineptitude the Pac leadership has demonstrated over the last decade?
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more b12 crap.

we don't know the state of the negotiations. you want to assume the worst because you want the really hot girl to go out with you when we have no other choice.

what kill shot?

a conference with uo, uw, stan, cal, uu, and us is viable. full stop. the pac took a hit but only time will tell if it is a kill shot.

there is no proof the deal being negotiated is worse or better than whatever was previously discussed.

you willing things to be a certain way do not make them true.

the way this has gone, i think it is safe to surmise something changed. we don't know what that something is.

and, thanks, baby, for the being there for us if we need a backup date.
 
MiamiBuffs said:
How is it his fault if no one is offering money? USC and UCLA left with the biggest brand in the conference and the largest TV market in the USA. How is that his fault?

We need to know a lot more details before pronouncing that he should fired.
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Go back and listen to Canzano and Wilner episode #55.
 
cu3x said:
Now that he is a "Hall of Famer", has that extra swagger and bounce in his step, we should send Phil DiSteff to meet with the media, and get this done.

Black tracksuit, Silver Nikes, Gold chains.
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I'd rather give that fat, old **** a one way ticket to like Katmandu.
 
Buffnik said:
If that was the case, CU would have left already.

I believe that something is cooking and both sides have agreed in principle on a deal structure. That we're in the lawyering, fine points and final tweaks of the numbers stage. Deals do fall apart at this stage, but I believe that we're there or someone would have bailed by now.
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Maybe. I genuinely believe CU has one foot out the door. I’m ok with RG giving the PAC every chance to put together something worthwhile. It just feels like that’s a fleeting possibility at this point.
 
Buffnik said:
People watch if you are ranked or otherwise more interesting than other games. Having your game listed in the channel guide does nothing to build the brand. B1G hasn't achieved what it has due to BTN being on basic in most cable & satellite packages. It's because of FoxSports marketing the hell out of it to get an ROI and then paying up for rights to keep that gravy train rolling. Whoever commits to the Pac-12, if we aren't its 3rd or worse priority in college sports programming, will market the hell out of the conference and make sure it gets a ton of exposure.
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100% this.

There is a venn diagram one can make of three groups of people:
  • People who are very angry that the ESPN hype machine pumps up SEC teams so that those teams are ranked highly in the preseason and then get a disproportionate amount of ranked teams later in the season as a result. This was not always the case, until ESPN signed the SEC up.
  • People who want CU to sign a majority linear deal via the Pac12 or Big12 with ESPN for "exposure"
  • People who are anti Apple or anti Amazon because those companies "are just marketing" and/or "try to be the main service for everything for a customer"
Somehow, we are overrepresented on this board who fit into the center of this Venn Diagram without making the connection that:
  1. We'd be a streaming company's first, second, and third priorities vs. lost in the noise on ESPN/other linear and thus negating any "exposure" advantage. Apple/Amazon would put their full weight behind marketing the P12 since it would be all they had.
  2. Apple (and to a lesser extent, Amazon) reach huge numbers of prospective viewers and have a very strong track record of marketing. Apple could do things like push notifications to every iPhone that "CU vs. OSU is starting now, tap here to watch" (note: I have received notifications like this regarding MLS games on my iPhone without an MLS subscription)
  3. Apple and Amazon have MUCH deeper pockets for marketing than any of the linear companies
 
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