DC Search Including & beyond the 1st 4 Candidates

[MiamiBuffs]

You got laughed at because five years is a ridiculous contract to give to any assistant. Three years is a lot of stability for the right guy.

See below from a guy that is much closer to the C suite than you are I. His offer below, while not matching in years, says what Ive been saying; we have a "gap" and we need to be more aggressive in order to fix it. The conventional approach is not working

a three year deal, the title of "assistant head coach" along with the DC title, and a salary north of 750k, and i would be prepared to believe that we could land a big hire. i have a hard time understanding all the rejection if we are, in fact, prepared to offer a deal along these lines.

oh, and if we are "running the program like a business" under RG, then this is not a "laughable" offer-- it is what you do when you have a critical gap in your org chart that you need to fill with a heavy hitter. you overpay to get the right guy.

i will say the other component that we don't know about on the outside is "fit"-- fit is a hard thing to measure. it is possible that the big name guys whose names leaked were not good fits after discussions. gibbs, for example, is allegedly kind of a dick. now that wouldn't be the only criteria in measuring fit but it is possible that we are struggling to find the right guy for CU at this time. i don't think that's all there is to this, however, especially if we are willing to be bold on comp.

The length and amount are details for lawyers. The issue needs to be "fixed" for the sake of the program more than for the sake of Mike MacIntyre.

Who has not yet shown me that he needs to be discarded. His coaching has shown much improvement on gameday, more so than Embree or Hawkins showed. He made a mistake retaining Baer and his recruiting needs improvement. However, he's shown brilliance with Lindgren and Sefo. Lets help him fix the other half before we decide to start over.

 

[stretch]

Do we know which players were primarily recruited by Baer? I know Fehoko and Boogie in this class, but what about years past? Has he had any players find early success? I know its tough because its not always listed or reported, but wondering if anyone remembered.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

If I had hair......

That's the thing with radio silence -- all these assumptions and conjecture morph into fact. Of the first 10 names - only three were confirmed potential targets. Days later the hot list was shortened to those three names. Gibbs and Durkin were the two who were offered the job. Durkin was interviewed and in contact with CU multiple times. Harbaugh took the Michigan job, no more explanation needed. Gibbs threw a wrench into things. That was no question a WTF moment. There is some color to this that sounds like spin and probably is -- not my place to post it. Will come out later I am certain.

So we missed out on the top two targets and we get radio silence. Absolute lock down on details. This has then morphed into CFB has soundly rejected what we are selling, coaches are laughing at us, no one wants the job. I can't say definitively you guys are wrong. But sure seems like we keep heading down the rabbit hole in absence of any real information.

The most likely scenario from that point on - is they double backed and explored every possible direction. From MacIntyre taking coordinating and concentrating on two position coaches who are "dynamic" recruiters. To taking a young position coach who shares MacIntyre's thoughts on defending the spread. To kicking the tires of a successful P5 coordinator and offering a significant raise. To looking towards the NFL. To looking at non P5 DC's. Blah blah blah. We just don't know right now.

Totally understand how easy it is to go down the rabbit hole. This is frustrating as all ****. But that is all we really know for sure -- that its taking a long time.

This is my concern. Its been suggested that once we hire a DC the fans will move on and forget. Few will notice it. Sportscenter will not mention it.

However, Im quite certain that the coaching community, the people that matter in terms of this job, know that it's still open. And noted the length and handling of it. And probably know more about why than we do.

 

[Quattro]

LOL. Just been paying attention the last 10 years...

I know, I'm just ****in wit ya

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Forgive me if this has already been discussed recently, but what are people's take on the defensive scheme that a new DC would bring? We were a typical 4-3 under Baer and one could argue that was part of the problem in itself. It's just not conducive to stopping or slowing down the spread offenses in the Pac 12. What kind of defense did MM run at Duke and what kind of defense should we expect and desire the new DC to bring in? 3-4? 3-3-5?

I am personally a fan of the 3-3-5 defense. Gets a lot of speed on the field and is great for disrupting the passing game. It does require a stout NT to handle the A gaps and some big and talented DEs to take on some of the double teams to free up the LBs, though. May not fit our current personnel, but it's a very interesting defense with countless blitzing and coverage options.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

What is done to sweeten the pot for a DC depends entirely on who you can get.

A justifiable complaint from several posters is that many coaches on the current staff got huge raises from their previous job. That raise didn't make any of them better coaches than they were previously and they may well have come here for less.

Pay some ridiculous amount and get a spectacular candidate and you look aggressive. Pay that same amount and bring in somebody no-name coach from small school USA and you just look stupid.

With the talent gaps we have why take that risk. That seems to be the message were sending and the message being sent back.

 

[stretch]

He made a mistake retaining Baer and his recruiting needs improvement. However, he's shown brilliance with Lindgren and Sefo. Lets help him fix the other half before we decide to start over.

Interesting that a HC with a defensive background has had the most problems improving the defense. Probably because he lets his coordinators coach while focusing on being the CEO of the team. Hopefully with his background he will be able to best identify the defensive Lindgren, without having to devote more of his time to the defense.

 

[GoBuffs08]

What is it called when you hit the ball over the fence in baseball? Let's be real though we are setting ourselves up for failure discussing this.

100% This

 

[MiamiBuffs]

I agree. Just as likely we have a HC who can't sell the job and a program that isn't attractive to anyone with options. Same issues with the garbage recruiting. We have sunken so low I cringe every time I see CU fan running attendance smack at CSU. Absolutely could have been one cluster **** after another.

If Rick George is the SuperMan so many claim him to be then why wouldn't he just fire Mike Mac now? I'd care to guess he's in a better position to know that than anyone else.

Unfortunately, according to some scoop another poster deposited elsewhere, RG has been active in this and has seen first hand the level of rejection the coaching world has delivered on us. The question is wether than rejection is because of the state of CU. Or because they believe they can't work with MM.

Since MM is still here Ive formed my own conclusion.

 

[stretch]

I'm thinking that HCMM is focusing his efforts on this recruiting class at this point. It will not be a big splash hire that dramatically changes our fortunes on the recruiting trails, so he might as well spend his time finishing strong in this class.

Would be better than half-*****ing the DC search and recruiting simultaneously, although I'm sure he would have preferred to get it taken care of during the dead period.

I don't expect an announcement until after NSD.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

That being said, I don't think RG walks on water either. He's still a first time AD. He gets a lot of mileage from being around in the late 80s and having a football background.

What we did: Hired another non traditional hire for a school with a national championship that still thinks small.

What we needed: An AD from a top 10 football program brought in to fix our woes when Bohn was let go.

What we decided we needed more: RG has done what he was brought in to do; fund raising, marketing, facilities, operations, budget. Until his faults are revealed I will NOT count RG out. Bohn was a good AD but we eventually saw what his weaknesses were. RG has weaknesses too. We just dont know what they are yet. Or if can and will fix football.

 

[DiggerBuffs]

Do we know which players were primarily recruited by Baer? I know Fehoko and Boogie in this class, but what about years past? Has he had any players find early success? I know its tough because its not always listed or reported, but wondering if anyone remembered.

From Rivals it appears that Kaiser, Mathewes, Shaver from 2014. Adkins from 2013. No one from 2015.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Probably for the same reason some regular posters don't pony up $15 bucks to become members. Every person and institution has different levels of commitment, circumstances, and values.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Zing! :lol:

 

[boydbuff]

If Rick George is the SuperMan so many claim him to be then why wouldn't he just fire Mike Mac now? I'd care to guess he's in a better position to know that than anyone else.

Unfortunately, according to some scoop another poster deposited elsewhere, RG has been active in this and has seen first hand the level of rejection the coaching world has delivered on us. The question is wether than rejection is because of the state of CU. Or because they believe they can't work with MM.

Since MM is still here Ive formed my own conclusion.

Are you really going there? Jury is still out on HCMM but he hasn´t earned termination at this point. By most objective measures of on-field performance, we have improved significantly and become a much more competitive team than we were for the past decade almost. Didn´t show up on the scoreboard where it matters most, so HCMM´s pass on W-L is probably over in 2015.

He will have to show progress in the W-L column to continue to be in good standing with RG. RG knows it is about winning, but also knows this wasn´t going to be turned around over night. And getting rid of our 2nd coach in a row after 2 years, despite showing a positive trend line in on-field performance after having hit rock bottom with the previous coach doesn´t make any sense.

 

[Quattro]

What we did: Hired another non traditional hire for a school with a national championship that still thinks small.

Uhh what?

 

[patebuff]

What in the world is going on in here?

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Interesting that a HC with a defensive background has had the most problems improving the defense. Probably because he lets his coordinators coach while focusing on being the CEO of the team. Hopefully with his background he will be able to best identify the defensive Lindgren, without having to devote more of his time to the defense.

I think this is where MM is learning on the job. Looking at his history he has a lot of NFL years that removed him from the college game. Then when he came back to the college game he was not anywhere where they had a history of doing it at the high level. This is where his mistake with Baer and with recruiting probably comes from.

1990–1991 1992 1993–1996 1997–1998 1999–2002 2003–2006 2007 2008–2009 2010–2012 2013–present	Georgia (GA) Davidson (DC) Tennessee–Martin (DC) Temple (DC) Mississippi (WR/DB) Dallas Cowboys (DB) New York Jets (DB) Duke (DC) San Jose State Colorado

With the limits of practice time imposed by the NCAA Im fairly certain you have to have someone thats a good CEO. Look at the mess that were Embree's practices. We need the Lindgren DC or we need what B&G suggested a few pages back.

 

[DiggerBuffs]

Rick George and Mike MacIntyre most likely have their guy. They don't have big mouths and are keeping it tight to the vest. Something that UF and others have done a poor job of doing. I agree with others and as I have said, it will most likely come next week and most likely at the luncheon.

We aren't the only P5 school looking for Coordinators and assistants. My guess is with a week until signing day, the focus is to close the deals there. No way we start spring ball without a few weeks of a DC to start scheming and figuring out what is next.

And though we are undermanned, we added a damn good recruiter in Hagan by ridding ourselves of Baer and LaRussa deciding to go with him. The amount of offers and talk about 2016 is a change from the past and it's nice to see.

 

[jahbrahakala]

Guessing we are offering a salary south of $550,000


Texas Tech: Defensive coordinator David Gibbs will earn $550,000 annually as part of a two-year deal, per the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal. While there is no buyout if he leaves for a head coaching job, or NFL job, Gibbs would owe $200,000 if he leaves for another Big 12 job, or $25,000 for an assistant coaching job outside of the Big 12.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Are you really going there? Jury is still out on HCMM but he hasn´t earned termination at this point. By most objective measures of on-field performance, we have improved significantly and become a much more competitive team than we were for the past decade almost. Didn´t show up on the scoreboard where it matters most, so HCMM´s pass on W-L is probably over in 2015.

He will have to show progress in the W-L column to continue to be in good standing with RG. RG knows it is about winning, but also knows this wasn´t going to be turned around over night. And getting rid of our 2nd coach in a row after 2 years, despite showing a positive trend line in on-field performance after having hit rock bottom with the previous coach doesn´t make any sense.

Im still a firm supporter of MM.

The original poster that I quoted suggested that MM was an island unto himself who could not "sell the school". This implies that RG is hands off and is letting MM dangle from the rope he hung himself with. Which, in a way, hurts RG's successes in the future since MM is going to get 2015 and probably 2016 too. That strikes me as counter intuitive if your RG because to fix things sooner helps your fund raising efforts and your ticket sales.

As someone whose worked in sales most of my professional life those guys that can't sell something dont last long. I watched more than a few of them come in and leave within 6 months in some cases. The bosses who know, and RG did do fund raising so he likely knows, just doesn't tolerate a lack of success. Thats why I suggested in my reply that if RG saw that problem he should make a change.

Lastly, do any of these DC candidates come in and are interviewed solely by MM? I highly doubt that given the dollar amounts. Id assume they sat in front of a few people before being offered the job.

 

[Burrito]

Well, that's a whole Lotta nuthin'.

 

[Jeric]

Guessing we are offering a salary south of $550,000


Texas Tech: Defensive coordinator David Gibbs will earn $550,000 annually as part of a two-year deal, per the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal. While there is no buyout if he leaves for a head coaching job, or NFL job, Gibbs would owe $200,000 if he leaves for another Big 12 job, or $25,000 for an assistant coaching job outside of the Big 12.

Money wasn't the issue with Gibbs, from what I've heard.

 

[pcbuff]

RG's position is great right now. He's created a revenue stream of donations that did not exists previously. He's getting the upgrades in to coincide withvthr head coach he didn't hires contract expiring. If MM performs, he pays him. If he doesn't, he has a shiney new building and ability to capital raise to sell the new guy.

I for one hope MM makes it. Selfishly as A fan, but also because he gives every appearance of running a good program. Recruiting is broken, and this seems to be an attempt to fix it. Now if he can recruit the right DC!!

 

[BlackNGold]

If Rick George is the SuperMan so many claim him to be then why wouldn't he just fire Mike Mac now? I'd care to guess he's in a better position to know that than anyone else.

Unfortunately, according to some scoop another poster deposited elsewhere, RG has been active in this and has seen first hand the level of rejection the coaching world has delivered on us. The question is wether than rejection is because of the state of CU. Or because they believe they can't work with MM.

Since MM is still here Ive formed my own conclusion.

George knows that MacIntyre should not be fired now and your train of thought is not the reason for that. There are a lot more questions than the two you propose. I don't think anyone has turned down the job because they don't think they can work with MacIntyre.

 

[WizzersGhost]

Coaches are like little old ladies and general contractors : What they learned 10, 20 even 30 years ago, is still valid and true in their minds, all facts to the contrary be damned.

CU got to overcome some serious chitt, man!

 

[Buffnik]

Forgive me if this has already been discussed recently, but what are people's take on the defensive scheme that a new DC would bring? We were a typical 4-3 under Baer and one could argue that was part of the problem in itself. It's just not conducive to stopping or slowing down the spread offenses in the Pac 12. What kind of defense did MM run at Duke and what kind of defense should we expect and desire the new DC to bring in? 3-4? 3-3-5?

I am personally a fan of the 3-3-5 defense. Gets a lot of speed on the field and is great for disrupting the passing game. It does require a stout NT to handle the A gaps and some big and talented DEs to take on some of the double teams to free up the LBs, though. May not fit our current personnel, but it's a very interesting defense with countless blitzing and coverage options.

We don't necessarily know. Assumption is that HCMM is looking for someone who shares his defensive philosophies. MM has been a 4-man front guy, but certainly learned 3-man front schemes under Parcells. We think he's got some ideas on how to defend Pac-12 offenses, which requires an ability to defend both a spread passing attack and a zone read run game while also being able to deal with the power games of Stanford, Utah and now Oregon State. My suspicion, considering what CU started doing the last few game when MM was allegedly more involved in the defense, is that we'll see a base of a 4-2-5 and that he wants to be able to walk back the weak side DE into an OLB spot to give a 3-3-5 look. I don't think we're going to be seeing much 4-3.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

We don't necessarily know. Assumption is that HCMM is looking for someone who shares his defensive philosophies. MM has been a 4-man front guy, but certainly learned 3-man front schemes under Parcells. We think he's got some ideas on how to defend Pac-12 offenses, which requires an ability to defend both a spread passing attack and a zone read run game while also being able to deal with the power games of Stanford, Utah and now Oregon State. My suspicion, considering what CU started doing the last few game when MM was allegedly more involved in the defense, is that we'll see a base of a 4-2-5 and that he wants to be able to walk back the weak side DE into an OLB spot to give a 3-3-5 look. I don't think we're going to be seeing much 4-3.

Good stuff, thank you for the response. I truly hope we move toward the 4-2-5/3-3-5 with the single high safety. It's such a creative scheme that, when coordinated right, can be smothering to opposing offenses.

 

[ahoelsken]

Im still a firm supporter of MM.

The original poster that I quoted suggested that MM was an island unto himself who could not "sell the school". This implies that RG is hands off and is letting MM dangle from the rope he hung himself with. Which, in a way, hurts RG's successes in the future since MM is going to get 2015 and probably 2016 too. That strikes me as counter intuitive if your RG because to fix things sooner helps your fund raising efforts and your ticket sales.

As someone whose worked in sales most of my professional life those guys that can't sell something dont last long. I watched more than a few of them come in and leave within 6 months in some cases. The bosses who know, and RG did do fund raising so he likely knows, just doesn't tolerate a lack of success. Thats why I suggested in my reply that if RG saw that problem he should make a change.

Lastly, do any of these DC candidates come in and are interviewed solely by MM? I highly doubt that given the dollar amounts. Id assume they sat in front of a few people before being offered the job.

Probably MacIntyre and George.....you don't need to get a bunch of academics involved in a search for a new Defensive Coordinator.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

George knows that MacIntyre should not be fired now and your train of thought is not the reason for that. There are a lot more questions than the two you propose. I don't think anyone has turned down the job because they don't think they can work with MacIntyre.

I agree on that. I was challenging the position of the poster I quoted. And I agree there sure seems to be a lot going on below the surface...

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Probably MacIntyre and George.....you don't need to get a bunch of academics involved in a search for a new Defensive Coordinator.

Mmmmm. I know how McElwain responded to a question from someone that worked at Regent asked in regards to academic philosophies and students going to class. His answer probably contributed to him not being offered. A DC is certainly a different hire so your probably right. But Id think some combination of the following would be in the room...

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