There are plenty of coaches who don’t do either of the above well and get hired. The idea that NFL teams effectively hire coaches is hilarious.
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Eric Bien(i)emy's next job speculation, shut out again
- Thread starter 4BienemyTDs
- Start date
Too short?
Sorry, Scooter.
lawdogg
Club Member
Beat me to it @4BienemyTDs...
NewEra 2014
Well-Known Member
Ok cuck
**** you.
I guess its possible that NFL owners are refusing to hire the best available candidate coach b/c of racism.
however, I would also think (based on conjecture, not data) that (a) racist billionaires are probably not buying teams that often, as it means they have to pay black people big money to succeed (b) even if a team's owner is racist, the owner's desire to win outweighs the desire to not employ blacks.
<rhetorical>are there really enough racist billionaires out there who buy NFL teams but are willing to shoot themselves in the foot to avoid giving a black man responsibility such that a black coach can't get hired?</r>
I guess it's possible, and I also guess that applying logic to racism is probably a losing proposition, but it doesn't seem to make sense.
semi-related tangential possible counter point: when Ray Rhodes was fired by Green Bay after one year as HC, a lot of people screamed racism. The counter to that was "the guy who fired him is the same guy who hired him". The counter to that was "but a white coach would've been given a longer leash and at least one more year to demonstrate whether he could turn it around". I remember at the time thinking that all three points had some validity. The analogy to EB would be "maybe he's not the clear 'best available' coach, but if he was white someone would've given him a chance by now".
edit: one of the points I was trying to make but didn't articulate, is that I believe racism is not a binary quality -- there are (qualitative) degrees of racism.
however, I would also think (based on conjecture, not data) that (a) racist billionaires are probably not buying teams that often, as it means they have to pay black people big money to succeed (b) even if a team's owner is racist, the owner's desire to win outweighs the desire to not employ blacks.
<rhetorical>are there really enough racist billionaires out there who buy NFL teams but are willing to shoot themselves in the foot to avoid giving a black man responsibility such that a black coach can't get hired?</r>
I guess it's possible, and I also guess that applying logic to racism is probably a losing proposition, but it doesn't seem to make sense.
semi-related tangential possible counter point: when Ray Rhodes was fired by Green Bay after one year as HC, a lot of people screamed racism. The counter to that was "the guy who fired him is the same guy who hired him". The counter to that was "but a white coach would've been given a longer leash and at least one more year to demonstrate whether he could turn it around". I remember at the time thinking that all three points had some validity. The analogy to EB would be "maybe he's not the clear 'best available' coach, but if he was white someone would've given him a chance by now".
edit: one of the points I was trying to make but didn't articulate, is that I believe racism is not a binary quality -- there are (qualitative) degrees of racism.
"All this other crap" matters, though. Is it really so hard to believe that he is ****ing terrible in interviews and comes off as someone who doesn't have a big vision plan? He's been on the HC interview circuit for 2-3 years now and has interviewed with half the league. Fair or not, coming into his first OC job with Mahomes as QB is ironically not doing him any favors. How many of Peyton Manning's OC's got HC jobs? Adam Gase?
The NFL is begging teams to hire black coaches and GMs and he is the most obvious. Maybe, just maybe, teams just don't see him as a CEO type
It does matter, but only insofar as it provides cover to not hire him.
Let me ask you this - in your years of following the NFL, how many times have you seen a white coach with a much lesser resumé than EB get hired? How many times have you seen undeserving retreads get second chances?
As I said before, AA coaches have to be unimpeachable candidates to get hired. EB has more than a good enough resumé for a different guy to get hired, but it's not perfect.
I'm not sure why guys are looking around for this reason and that reason when you literally have decades of evidence staring you in the face.
VJ was a perfect candidate. Successful position coach, successful coordinator, and nary a blemish on his record. He's exactly the guy I'm talking about when I say an unimpeachable resumé.
Using VJ as an example though - let's see when and if he gets another HC interview, especially if he goes back to being a successful coordinator for a few years.
Will he be Adam Gase and Josh McDaniels, or is he done?
I know which I'd put my money on.
He was an above average coordinator. As far as the blemish, how about being accused of rape in 2004?!? That's an unimpeachable resume?
Because as it pertains to EB, specifically, I think there are a ton of red flags in his past and probably still in the present that make teams hesitant. His resume on paper is a mixed bag at best. You then add in the fact that he is notoriously emotional, brash, and somewhat of a hot head, and I don't think it's that hard to believe he might rub people the wrong way in interviews.
Do I think there is some subconscious racial bias that also plays a factor? Probably, yes, but I don't believe that is the primary factor whatsoever.
He was actually a very mediocre DC who held that position for one season before becoming a HC. The Broncos wanted him for years prior to actually hiring him as HC, for some reason. He also had plenty of blemishes on his record off the field.
Only because their star QB had to push the issue and basically stopped talking to the team.
I'm sure it's only because he's white
NewEra 2014
Well-Known Member
FWIW, no team is winning a championship with Vance Joseph or Vic Fangio as their head coach. Or EB. Or Adam Gase. I'm not sure why several of the coaches in the NFL ever got hired, but they did and they will.
But in this environment, the NFL is more likely to hire an unproven black head coach over an unproven white head coach. I am seeing that Marvin Lewis and Todd Bowles are getting interviews during this hiring cycle, and it will be interesting to see if they get second chances. But if EB doesn't get hired, it likely has a lot more to do with EB himself rather than his race.
Huh?
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
Kliff Kingsbury, Matt Rhule, Matt Nagy, Zac Taylor, Kevin Stefanski, Matt Lafleur, Joe Judge, and Mike Vrabel disagree with you.
There are more head coaches named “Matt” than black head coaches in the NFL.
Mike McCoy
His QB coach did, Jim Caldwell
And his OC for the majority of his time in Indy, Tom Moore, was an old dude who didn't have much interest in becoming a HC
I'll bite. Tell me what else it is about.
Vic is one of the best, most respected defensive minds in NFL history. VJ has never been all that successful and was openly mocked by players. Elway and Ellis are also essentially retiring. Firing Vic at this point in time creates arguably the most undesirable HC vacancy possible, and puts them in a situation where they have to go through the hiring process again, which is not something they wanted to do.
Or I guess we could take AllBuffs' favorite narrative and say that it's because he's white.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
Surely Paton could bring Kubiak with him as HC and everything would be right in Bronco world.
I am willing to agree that VJ's lack of whiteness was not the only thing working against him, but I think that you are: A) overstating Fangio's resume, and B) trying to suggest that race was not an issue at all with VJ - just because it was not the only issue.
I won't even get into the fact that Joseph was set up to fail from the start, while Fangio was given carte blanche to make a much wider range of decisions. But hey, that record speaks for itself. I guess.