No. I said the CUAD will benefit from the new Pac 12 media deal, which projects to pay out around double what they are getting now. You tried telling me football wasn’t worth it. Only one of those things is dumb
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Finally > Kliavkoff P12 gets it
- Thread starter Always BUFF
- Start date
You’re really fired up about this. All I said was that if I’m the incoming AD I’d launch a study into the potential cost/benefit of scaling down the AD, eliminating football, and focusing on emerging sports with growth potential.
Meh, I am “fired up” because the only thing worse than suggesting CU should drop football because it doesn’t make sense financially, is doubling and tripling down on defending that opinion when you’ve been shown the financial data that says the exact opposite.
You’re usually a fairly level headed and intelligent poster, so this just feels like you don’t want to admit your idea sucks balls.
Yak and Gary,
Big West update:
Since CU has to add a sport be NCAA compliant after we drop football I suggest women's Beach Volleyball. The squads are small and the equipment and uniforms are inexpensive, and I believe small. Here are the current standings for the BW teams that participate. I'm doing all this CUAD work gratis. I need a few free hoops tickets next year. Someone tell RG:
2024 Beach Volleyball Standings - The Big West
The official 2024 Beach Volleyball Standings for The Big West
bigwest.org
They expect it to be around what the current B1G deal is, unless something unforeseen happens in the next 2 years that makes it more valuable. A combination of USC becoming a CFP contender and this possible data rights deal might be a wild card
Yeah, dumping millions into CU football sounds way better. Enjoy your piece of that investment, smart guy. Maybe you and BuffRocks85 will get some cool autographs this year!
Yes, it’s actually the best investment the CUAD has and could continue to make and the finances prove that out. I don’t understand why this is so hard for you. You are approaching bigbang2 territory of idiotic logic on this. I’m sure funding for all those other sports you talk about will just magically appear.
Yet somehow hundreds of institutions every year manage to do it.
Again, if getting gaped on the regular is your thing, enjoy the season. For me having a school and fans invest millions in a program with little or no hope to ever compete for a conference title seems absurd.
The landscape has changed and not in a direction I ever see benefiting CU. Revenues will taper off (already happening) and so will fan interest (also already happening). To each their own, though.
Isn’t your job in finance? To interpret financial indicators?
CU can compete for conference championships with a change in leadership. It can’t compete for national championships. Those days are over unless there is a massive demographic change in the mountain west (unlikely). I’m not sure anyone in the PAC 12 can compete, maybe USC, but have my doubts there too.
If you readjust your expectations to focus only on playing well in the western leagues, football will be much more enjoyable.
If you readjust your expectations to focus only on playing well in the western leagues, football will be much more enjoyable.
I don’t see us even competing for conference championships, but who knows.
What I’m worried about is the ridiculous debt that ADs are taking on in order to finance facilities projects etc. CU sold off $150m in bonds to help get the last facilities project done, and with shrinking revenues, including recent deficits, and borrowing even more from the conference I am genuinely wondering at what point you stop throwing money at this thing. CU Boulder’s debt payment has been around $75m campus wide, since 2015. How sustainable is that? Unless you are one of the select few competing for championships, it’s probably not.
Apparently that’s really stupid to consider, so I’m told.
Only if it's the right kind of investment. Things that better monetize Folsom, brand building strategic marketing & resources to ensure top notch personnel.
In other words, deliver a quality product and market the hell out of it.
We don't have to be national title contenders to do that. But no reason we can't win 6-8 games per year very quickly while making Folsom a game day experience that's a top draw for local sports entertainment dollars.
One potential side benefit of NIL is that it may actually slow or even reverse the facilities arm’s race. Now that boosters can just drop the bags of cash directly to the players, no need to funnel things through the AD for facility improvements. As a result, debt may actually shrink. Coaching salaries are funded through operating revenue (mostly), and not capitalized like stadium expansions and the like.
I think you’re right for schools with big athletic boosters, but my concern is schools like CU, Illinois, Oregon St etc won’t be able to compete on the NIL front, so we’ll try and keep up in other ways. Facilities being one.
Possibly. Hard to predict right now. I do believe that the current college football model is unsustainable in a variety of ways, and it will take the rest of the 2020s to sort it out. Where CU lands is still unclear. I’m skeptical, but not as far down on CU as you are.
No my job isn’t to interpret financial indicators, but I can read a balance sheet.
You point to small and private schools that have never relied on football revenue to support their AD as precedent for CU to just drop football and focus on non revenue generating sports. I’m providing you the numbers that show these sports lose a ton of money for the AD, and you are just brushing them off like it doesn’t matter. Without football, even with declining attendance and interest (something being majorly overblown by you due to a 4-8 season), there is no media money or P5 conference affiliation, and what little donations this AD does get aren’t coming in to support other sports.
I’m pointing to actual numbers and facts, while your argument has become, “hAvE fUn WaTcHiNg A ****tY tEaM, bUd”.
Of course. Like anything, money has to be allocated to the right places. That’s a conversation that makes sense. This is why I have said from the beginning, this program can be a 6-8 game winner, just hire better coaches. That might require more money, or maybe that just requires an AD that gives a **** and doesn’t give up. Regardless, debating whether or not to have a football program at all is ridiculous.
Yet you’ve never mentioned AD debt in your numbers. It’s like someone who’s upside down on their mortgage and saddled with tens of thousands in credit card debt but because they’ve never missed a payment they think they’re doing well.
“tHe aD iS bIgLy pRofiTaBlE!” <ignores millions of dollars in interest and debt payments per year and recent new $18M dollar loan>
College Athletic Debt Soars as Power 5 Programs Resist Scrutiny
As the costs of doing business at Power Five school soar, athletic department debt is ballooning, writes Illinois professor Michael LeRoy.
www.sportico.com
Rutgers’ Athletics Deficit Reveals The Hidden Caste In The College Sports Hierarchy
Most observers are well aware of the extant hierarchies in the NCAA. It turns out, however, that there is also a sharp distinction between the top half and the bottom half of the 64 Power Five schools.
www.forbes.com
But yeah, I’m the biggest idiot in the world for wanting to take a hard look if this is the best path forward for CU.
Sure, the soccer team doesn’t pull in money but would it actually cost less due to the fact they don’t require millions upon millions of debt to operate or stay competitive? Could this option relieve some of the debt burden from the university as a whole? Would this open up credit lines and bond options that would allow CU to make overall campus improvements and add programs that boost academic rankings?
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Yeah. I think if were really lucky we briefly get into 2nd in payout then slide back to third place. We never touch SEC money as P12 fans dont fill stadiums or spend all day watching games having more things to do where we live. With attendance falling everywhere, even in the SEC, things could change a lot in the next 20 years
No, what you’re suggesting is for someone who is upside down on their mortgage with thousands in credit card debitdeciding it makes more financial sense to quit their day job to focus on their arts and crafts hobbies that they sell at the flea market.Yet you’ve never mentioned AD debt in your numbers. It’s like someone who’s upside down on their mortgage and saddled with tens of thousands in credit card debt but because they’ve never missed a payment they think they’re doing well.
“tHe aD iS bIgLy pRofiTaBlE!” <ignores millions of dollars in interest and debt payments per year and recent new $18M dollar loan>
College Athletic Debt Soars as Power 5 Programs Resist Scrutiny
As the costs of doing business at Power Five school soar, athletic department debt is ballooning, writes Illinois professor Michael LeRoy.
Rutgers’ Athletics Deficit Reveals The Hidden Caste In The College Sports Hierarchy
Most observers are well aware of the extant hierarchies in the NCAA. It turns out, however, that there is also a sharp distinction between the top half and the bottom half of the 64 Power Five schools.
But yeah, I’m the biggest idiot in the world for wanting to take a hard look if this is the best path forward for CU.
Sure, the soccer team doesn’t pull in money but would it actually cost less due to the fact they don’t require millions upon millions of debt to operate or stay competitive? Could this option relieve some of the debt burden from the university as a whole? Would this open up credit lines and bond options that would allow CU to make overall campus improvements and add programs that boost academic rankings?
Guess what? CU already has the debt. They have built the big facilities and they have borrowed the money. Getting rid of the only source of income that currently helps pay those bills doesn’t make sense. All those other sports still have costs. The Soccer team literally can’t travel to play games without the football team supporting them. The T&F team don’t have facilities to train in without the football team supporting them.
It’s Rick George and other people in leadership’s job to figure out how best to monetize Folsom, the IPF, the Champions Center, rooftop, CU Events Center, etc.
You also keep posting data about broader university debt that has nothing to do with the football program. Again, the football program is the only profitable part of the AD, and is the only part that is going to generate more and higher profits in the future with the media dollars (no matter how much you want to ignore that). Full stop, end of discussion.
Good luck on your continued mental masterbation of thinking your argument makes any sense whatsoever.
Ha, you’re super defensive about this and not even trying to engage in a legitimate discussion. I’ve provided you with up to date figures around CU’s current financial situation, how the changing landscape will make it that much harder moving forward, articles how ADs at P5 schools are finding themselves getting crushed by debt with little hope going forward, and I’ve recommended that someone at CU should undertake a study to determine if our current path is the best way forward. Apparently that’s waaay too radical for you.
That’s fine. You seem to believe CU football will be a very lucrative investment going forward, it’s your opinion. I don’t necessarily disagree, but there are some indicators that give me pause and I believe should be explored further, rather than throwing all our eggs in that basket and ending up ****ed.
I just see that even a bad football team is profitable and pays the bills for everybody else and that will only get more apparent in 2024 and beyond, regardless of whether the changing landscape of CFB continues to hinder CU from competing beyond standard bowl games.
If you can come up with a revenue model to fund the other sports and the training facilities they need, without needing football money, I’m all ears with this discussion.
You gotta have some kind of home? I get the headquarters concept being dumb, but there needs to be a meeting place, such as the studios, or a PAC Hall of Fame, or something?
Hell yes. I'm gonna apply
This was a smart interim transition step. Allows them to save money on infrastructure costs while downsizing payroll. Eventually they'll have a HQ again. Probably in Las Vegas. Definitely not in the San Francisco downtown financial district.
Sallee is such a tool.
