Is sustained success even possible at CU?

[Buffnik]

College basketball recruiting is a bigger cesspool than College football in many ways, but the basketball team is making inroads. Blame falls squarely on the AD.

Exactly.

People love to use the extreme examples and say that CU can't recruit because it won't build a shadow booster network and pay recruits like "insert blue blood program name".

But Tad doesn't try to play the game against those programs or the dirty wannabes that are heading for sanctions.

You don't have to try to drive in the fast lane. You have to be strategic and be there with peers who aren't doing stuff that turns your stomach. CU Football can be there driving just over the speed limit like peers.

 

[MtnBuff]

But that’s AD money they refuse to spend, right? Are successful programs getting a lot of money from the academic side that Cu isn’t and that’s the difference?

I know money is a big part of it, but that can’t be the sole difference.

CU is required to be self-supporting, no money from the school. Most D1 programs run in the red with the schools acknowledging the publicity value and contribution the programs make to the rest of the school. Lots of evidence indicates that a successful football program increases the number and quality of applications to the school, increases alumni engagement, and increases non-athletic donations to the school.

Further, CU does some accounting "tricks" that actually feed athletic money into the general funds.

These include charging the athletic department full out of state tuition on athletes, even those from in-state. They also charge administrative fees, facility use fees, etc. including on facilities paid for by the athletic department.

There are other items as well, some significant, some petty, but overall they just reflect a complete lack of understanding of the contributions that a successful football program makes and unwillingness to contribute to that.

The administrators though certainly don't mind bathing in the glow though when things are going well.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I take it you've never worked in a large organization? Or you're one of those people who lack enough political savvy to rise in an organization with a lot of internal politics?

Here's the thing, you're almost never explicitly told what you can't do. But you still know.

So, for instance, Phil has probably never had to tell Rick that he can't ask that academic department with the one professor who gives easy grades in that one course to schedule the course so it wouldn't conflict with the best times for football practice.

There are all kinds of large and small things that are similar. It's all about what is emphasized at the top.

For whatever reason, CU hasn't had a leader at the top who would get everybody on board with excelling at both academics and athletics since Gordon Gee. They are too often looked at as being in conflict, a good leader could change that culture.

With the right leadership, a "hey, a lot of athletes really like to take these courses, let's try and make them more accessible for their schedule" shouldn't be a conversation that the chancellor won't have. But absent a leader who is creating a culture from the top that both are valuable pursuits, that's a conversation that isn't happening.

I know you were just using an example but poor grades and missing practices aren’t the issues holding this program back. I get your point, but it was mentioned that Tucker came in and assembled an SEC style recruiting system, and then RG dismantled it when he left. Why? Was he told by Phil it was too edgy or did he just decide to do that on his own?

 

[skibum]

I take it you've never worked in a large organization? Or you're one of those people who lack enough political savvy to rise in an organization with a lot of internal politics?

Here's the thing, you're almost never explicitly told what you can't do. But you still know.

So, for instance, Phil has probably never had to tell Rick that he can't ask that academic department with the one professor who gives easy grades in that one course to schedule the course so it wouldn't conflict with the best times for football practice.

There are all kinds of large and small things that are similar. It's all about what is emphasized at the top.

For whatever reason, CU hasn't had a leader at the top who would get everybody on board with excelling at both academics and athletics since Gordon Gee. They are too often looked at as being in conflict, a good leader could change that culture.

With the right leadership, a "hey, a lot of athletes really like to take these courses, let's try and make them more accessible for their schedule" shouldn't be a conversation that the chancellor won't have. But absent a leader who is creating a culture from the top that both are valuable pursuits, that's a conversation that isn't happening.

@The Alabaster Yak

Just an FYI, I realized that first paragraph can come off as dismissive of you. It's not how it's intended. I don't think "lack of political savvy" is a character flaw. It's probably the opposite.

 

[manhattanbuff]

Tad is perfect for CU. I know many here disagree, but I contend he has been successful despite the AD. I will also add that his success was kickstarted by a renewed priority to MBB made by Bohn when he seemingly was trying to protect his ass when he knew he was failing with a ****ty FB program. The investment made by CU in MBB at that time was minimal, and helped them cover up the fact that they had an Athletic Department that was one of the WORST in the country.

Recruiting has improved in Tad’s last 2-3 seasons. You cannot successfully wade in the corrupt waters of college basketball recruiting if you’re being held back. The admin isn’t holding Rick George back. Rick George just has chosen to give up on football by hiring a coach who can’t recruit.

 

[Leon Sandcastle]

I know you were just using an example but poor grades and missing practices aren’t the issues holding this program back. I get your point, but it was mentioned that Tucker came in and assembled an SEC style recruiting system, and then RG dismantled it when he left. Why? Was he told by Phil it was too edgy or did he just decide to do that on his own?

My guess is that it’s because KD inherited something that he had no idea how to run it. Exhibit A: Bob Lopez

 

[MtnBuff]

Exactly.

People love to use the extreme examples and say that CU can't recruit because it won't build a shadow booster network and pay recruits like "insert blue blood program name".

But Tad doesn't try to play the game against those programs or the dirty wannabes that are heading for sanctions.

You don't have to try to drive in the fast lane. You have to be strategic and be there with peers who aren't doing stuff that turns your stomach. CU Football can be there driving just over the speed limit like peers.

Agreed,

We don't have to be like the football factory programs that compromise everything to win like Baylor, kNU, and the regular playoff schools.

Give us a reasonably clean team that goes to a bowl most years, competes for a conference championship on a frequent enough basis, and wins some big games on TV a lot of fans would be very happy. Folsom Field would be fuller, donations would be up, and fan interest would be much higher.

 

[J.R. Ewing]

I know you were just using an example but poor grades and missing practices aren’t the issues holding this program back. I get your point, but it was mentioned that Tucker came in and assembled an SEC style recruiting system, and then RG dismantled it when he left. Why? Was he told by Phil it was too edgy or did he just decide to do that on his own?

I have a really hard time believing that didn't come down from above. RG was involved with recruiting back during our maybe less than pure 80s. This isn't his first rodeo.

People have mentioned that the basketball program is playing in a gray area. I think the basketball program might be small enough to fly under the radar.

 

[Leon Sandcastle]

Recruiting has improved in Tad’s last 2-3 seasons. You cannot successfully wade in the corrupt waters of college basketball recruiting if you’re being held back. The admin isn’t holding Rick George back. Rick George just has chosen to give up on football by hiring a coach who can’t recruit.

Would love to have a beer and discuss this at length. But there is value in what CU-Boulder provides to recruits when presenting the opportunity to play in a stable-winning environment. The “win and they will come” argument does have merit. This is the first time CU has had a consistent winner in MBB in our lifetime, and everyone knows that Tad isn’t going anywhere. I think that’s the difference here.

 

[Buffalo Brad]

My guess is that it’s because KD inherited something that he had no idea how to run it. Exhibit A: Bob Lopez

He did not inherit Lopez. They go way back and he brought him in. Another reason they all need to go. KD does not get how to run a football program on this level. He is in way over his head

 

[skibum]

I know you were just using an example but poor grades and missing practices aren’t the issues holding this program back. I get your point, but it was mentioned that Tucker came in and assembled an SEC style recruiting system, and then RG dismantled it when he left. Why? Was he told by Phil it was too edgy or did he just decide to do that on his own?

You don't think that 7am practice schedules aren't hurting at least a little bit in recruiting?

Yes, it's not going to make a big difference, but you do enough that are marginal on their own, and well... They add up.

Now, the SEC style recruiting operation that was reportedly being built and was dismantled.

I don't think RG was opposed to the organizational structure /infrastructure that was being built; I think he was worried (maybe incorrectly) about a specific aspect of it that he only knew how to get rid of by cleaning house.

To put it really bluntly: I think he would like that operation built back up the exact same way, but with fewer highly attractive young women involved.

 

[hawg1]

My guess is that it’s because KD inherited something that he had no idea how to run it. Exhibit A: Bob Lopez

He hired Lopez. Then promoted him. Then made his son DPP.

amateur hour.

 

[J.R. Ewing]

You don't think that 7am practice schedules aren't hurting at least a little bit in recruiting?

Yes, it's not going to make a big difference, but you do enough that are marginal on their own, and well... They add up.

Now, the SEC style recruiting operation that was reportedly being built and was dismantled.

I don't think RG was opposed to the organizational structure /infrastructure that was being built; I think he was worried (maybe incorrectly) about a specific aspect of it that he only knew how to get rid of by cleaning house.

To put it really bluntly: I think he would like that operation built back up the exact same way, but with fewer highly attractive young women involved.

That particular aspect seemed like a ticking time bomb at CU. I'm by no means that politically correct, but I cringed a bit when I first saw it.

 

[Leon Sandcastle]

He did not inherit Lopez. They go way back and he brought him in. Another reason they all need to go. KD does not get how to run a football program on this level. He is in way over his head

I stated that poorly. I was acknowledging that he replaced a number of people in the “old SEC” system with Bob Lopez. @hawg1

 

[skibum]

That particular aspect seemed like a ticking time bomb at CU. I'm by no means that politically correct, but I cringed a bit when I first saw it.

Here's the thing: it's entirely possibly (and actually somewhat likely) that every one of those women were competent professionals who never so much as even flirted with a recruit or coach, but that their presence in the workplace made the old men nervous.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

That particular aspect seemed like a ticking time bomb at CU. I'm by no means that politically correct, but I cringed a bit when I first saw it.

To be blunt, are we really suggesting that some of Tuckers attractive female recruiting department employees were banging recruits? Or is it simply the optics of the program having attractive female recruiting assistants/directors?

 

[skibum]

To be blunt, are we really suggesting that some of Tuckers attractive female recruiting department employees were banging recruits? Or is it simply the optics of the program having attractive female recruiting assistants/directors?

To be very blunt: I think sexist attitudes in Dal Ward led old men to claim "optics" was an issue when the truth was that they were uncomfortable working with so many young women that they found attractive.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

To be very blunt: I think sexist attitudes in Dal Ward led old men to claim "optics" was an issue when the truth was that they were uncomfortable working with so many young women that they found attractive.

God damn boomers suck again!

 

[J.R. Ewing]

To be blunt, are we really suggesting that some of Tuckers attractive female recruiting department employees were banging recruits? Or is it simply the optics of the program having attractive female recruiting assistants/directors?

Purely optics.

 

[Buffnik]

To be very blunt: I think sexist attitudes in Dal Ward led old men to claim "optics" was an issue when the truth was that they were uncomfortable working with so many young women that they found attractive.

Except that includes guys like Plati who definitely liked having eye candy around so he didn't need to spend his coin on 900 numbers to fuel his fantasies.

 

[Leon Sandcastle]

To be very blunt: I think sexist attitudes in Dal Ward led old men to claim "optics" was an issue when the truth was that they were uncomfortable working with so many young women that they found attractive.

KD remembers what it was like under Neu, and is well aware of the “scandal”. To assume he was making decisions as you suggest, while trying to get his feet under him as the HC at CU is entirely reasonable

 

[skibum]

KD remembers what it was like under Neu, and is well aware of the “scandal”. To assume he was making decisions as you suggest, while trying to get his feet under him as the HC at CU is entirely reasonable

He didn't make these decisions. They were made above his pay grade, mostly before he got here.

 

[manhattanbuff]

Would love to have a beer and discuss this at length. But there is value in what CU-Boulder provides to recruits when presenting the opportunity to play in a stable-winning environment. The “win and they will come” argument does have merit. This is the first time CU has had a consistent winner in MBB in our lifetime, and everyone knows that Tad isn’t going anywhere. I think that’s the difference here.

No beers with me anytime soon. Here’s the last of what I’ll say: nobody thinks Karl Dorrell is in danger. He wasn’t a competent recruiter as the HC at UCLA. He isn’t getting it done in Boulder. Games like today demonstrate how far behind we are in the talent department.

 

[Leon Sandcastle]

No beers with me anytime soon. Here’s the last of what I’ll say: nobody thinks Karl Dorrell is in danger. He wasn’t a competent recruiter as the HC at UCLA. He isn’t getting it done in Boulder. Games like today demonstrate how far behind we are in the talent department.

Sparkling water then. We’ve discussed this and I 100% agree. I was debating why this is the case at all.

 

[Creebuzz]

Sustained success is possible if you decide to take the under for the remainder of Chev’s tenure as OC.

 

[Agent Dave Kujan]

And I’m just wondering what he can’t do and why. This “CU admin won’t do what it takes” narrative has almost become legendary, but nobody really seems to know who from the admin side is limiting RG and how they are doing it

Mel Tucker left because he couldn’t get the players he wanted admitted. That is institutional

 

[777BuffFan]

Everything about this dead wrong.

How good we are academically has ZERO impact on getting good players and coaches. It actually hinders us. (See: WSU).

The VAST majority of football players couldn't give a rats ass about the hiking, biking, skiing that people love about Boulder. We have to get off this "Boulder is a beautiful place" BS. Most of the best programs are in ugly ****hole towns .... where people are college football crazy. That is NOT Boulder.

We had about a decade of "good tradition" (1990-2000)

And wow, if you think the Rocky Mtn region is a very strong place for talent ... I don't know what to tell you.

You are exactly correct. I’ve never heard any school brag about recruiting the Rockies for football talent, maybe a skier or toked out rock dog, but not football..

 

[ShnaultzSaltNMaltAssault]

No beers with me anytime soon. Here’s the last of what I’ll say: nobody thinks Karl Dorrell is in danger. He wasn’t a competent recruiter as the HC at UCLA. He isn’t getting it done in Boulder. Games like today demonstrate how far behind we are in the talent department.

I can already tell you're insufferable. Our recruiting class was ranked better than theirs in 17 and 20 and within 10 spots in 18 and 19. Dorrell had top 35 recruits every year except the year he got canned. IDK how many times you need to see a Utah team filled with 3 stars kick the **** out of us before you say, maybe our problem isn't talent but calling 5 yard routes and stretch runs every play.

To be very blunt: I think sexist attitudes in Dal Ward led old men to claim "optics" was an issue when the truth was that they were uncomfortable working with so many young women that they found attractive.

You should've stopped after the women were competent on their own. Claiming RG and LC got rid of them bc they're sexist... basically incapable of keeping their dicks in their pants bro... cringe. Remember when there was a pandemic last year and universities across the nation were trying to cut cost? Good times

 

[skibum]

I can already tell you're insufferable. Our recruiting class was ranked better than theirs in 17 and 20 and within 10 spots in 18 and 19. Dorrell had top 35 recruits every year except the year he got canned. IDK how many times you need to see a Utah team filled with 3 stars kick the **** out of us before you say, maybe our problem isn't talent but calling 5 yard routes and stretch runs every play.

You should've stopped after the women were competent on their own. Claiming RG and LC got rid of them bc they're sexist... basically incapable of keeping their dicks in their pants bro... cringe. Remember when there was a pandemic last year and universities across the nation were trying to cut cost? Good times

Never said they couldn't keep their dick in their pocket. I know lots of old men who have never cheated on their wives, who are also "uncomfortable" working with attractive young women. These are not mutually exclusive things.

 

[ShnaultzSaltNMaltAssault]

Never said they couldn't keep their dick in their pocket. I know lots of old men who have never cheated on their wives, who are also "uncomfortable" working with attractive young women. These are not mutually exclusive things.

Yeah you don't know that about RG and LC. They got rid of a new program after the coach who implemented it left and a pandemic forced athletic departments across the nation to downsize... let's think next time before accusing our AD and director of player development of being sexist.