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Is sustained success even possible at CU?

The Alabaster Yak said:
That’s the student and band section at what looks to be well before kickoff, though, right?

I don’t know, I’ve been to 3-4 games there over the last 5 years or so and it’s been packed every time. Crazy cool gameday atmosphere.

Regardless, their stadium holds about 30k more people than Folsom and they at least SELL 97% every year. The revenue differences are massive which trickle down into every aspect of the program operations.
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again all good points. yes, that pic appears to be just before kickoff, which is why i explicitly mentioned the late arriving students.

no question fan support far exceeds CU's, but I'd also note that by your link, UW is only 5th in their conference for attendance over the last five years. I maintain that 'rabid' is not the word to describe the fan base.

You've been to Camp Randall more than me. I've only been to two football games in Madison and neither was full. I'm glad you had a fantastic experience!

one was #4 tOSU in 2004 (which was sold out, but had plenty of room -- I had an empty seat next to me)
one was homecoming vs Maryland in 2017 which looked like the picture I posted above. my commie dad, cousin and I bought under face value tickets while walking to the stadium.
 
hokiehead said:
A lot of schools have been trying to replicate what Wisconsin did over the last 20 years and haven't figured it out. UW is an outlier in CFB w/r/t winning w/out high ranked recruiting classes. What do you see in how they built that program that CU can replicate where so many others failed?

Virginia Tech built their rise from nothing to a perennial conference contender through special teams, and then used success to get players like Vick, Jones, Suggs, Freeman, etc... But I don't think that model will work any more.
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I believe it starts with a commitment from the top leadership to do what it takes to attain a certain level of success. Before you do that, that leadership needs to know exactly what that commitment means in terms of time, money, resources, academic support, etc. Once that commitment is made, then it requires a commitment from staff (meaning: RG) to lay out the game plan and run it. If you want a team like Wisconsin, then you need to get coaches who know how to put together that kind of team. What you can’t do - and this is unfortunately exactly what we have done the last 20 years - is go out and hire coaches who change up the plan every few years. If you want to be like Wisconsin, don’t hire coaches who have a background in running teams like Oklahoma (as an example). If the first guy you hire doesn’t work. It’s not because the plan didn’t work, it’s because you hired somebody who couldn’t follow that plan. Go find somebody who can. Don’t throw out the plan - that you know works - throw out the people implementing the plan. As for how to replicate Wisconsin, I don’t know. I do know there are guys out there who do know how it’s done, though.
 
Not Sure said:
I believe it starts with a commitment from the top leadership to do what it takes to attain a certain level of success. Before you do that, that leadership needs to know exactly what that commitment means in terms of time, money, resources, academic support, etc. Once that commitment is made, then it requires a commitment from staff (meaning: RG) to lay out the game plan and run it. If you want a team like Wisconsin, then you need to get coaches who know how to put together that kind of team. What you can’t do - and this is unfortunately exactly what we have done the last 20 years - is go out and hire coaches who change up the plan every few years. If you want to be like Wisconsin, don’t hire coaches who have a background in running teams like Oklahoma (as an example). If the first guy you hire doesn’t work. It’s not because the plan didn’t work, it’s because you hired somebody who couldn’t follow that plan. Go find somebody who can. Don’t throw out the plan - that you know works - throw out the people implementing the plan. As for how to replicate Wisconsin, I don’t know. I do know there are guys out there who do know how it’s done, though.
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I was going to say in a previous post that Wisconsin is Wisconsin in very large part because they’ve had Barry Alvarez essentially running everything forever. He tells the HC what they’re going to do and that coach implements it. IIRC, that kind of dynamic is why Gary Anderson left for Oregon State (man what a fall he’s had since leaving Wisconsin, BTW), though. Paul Chryst is a Wisconsin guy, as is Jim Leonard (DC), so they truly have a staff that’s loyal and willing to take that direction from BA and Chryst isn’t ever going to leave for another job.

I think having a guy like Alvarez in charge is a double edged sword. It sets the standard for the program, but limits what candidates you’re going to attract
 
With all that in mind, the closest plan to emulating Wisconsin would have been for Rick George to secure the necessary resources and do what it took to hire Bienemy. Someone who checks all the boxes you could ask for in a coach at CU. Big name across the country that would create excitement and buzz and likely open up the wallets for donations, charismatic and good recruiter, West Coast guy, supposedly great X’s and O’s, instant credibility with NFL resume (Adrian Peterson, Mahomes, Hill, Kelce, etc), and I maintain that having a black coach at CU is ideal.
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
With all that in mind, the closest plan to emulating Wisconsin would have been for Rick George to secure the necessary resources and do what it took to hire Bienemy. Someone who checks all the boxes you could ask for in a coach at CU. Big name across the country that would create excitement and buzz and likely open up the wallets for donations, charismatic and good recruiter, West Coast guy, supposedly great X’s and O’s, instant credibility with NFL resume (Adrian Peterson, Mahomes, Hill, Kelce, etc), and I maintain that having a black coach at CU is ideal.
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You have to know what kind of program you want before you go looking for a coach. I don’t think we know what kind of program we want. Switching gears from Sark to KD pretty much verified that. If we wanted another guy like Tucker - and Sark is pretty close - then hire another guy like Tucker. Just because your first choice didn’t work out, you don’t ditch the entire plan for the sake of expediency. We essentially started all over again. Hiring a new coach doesn’t necessarily mean you have to start all over again. Hire a coach that knows what you want to accomplish and has the ability to do it.
 
Is the fact that everything at CU pertaining to hiring and budget in the AD goes through a partisan Board of Regents part of the issue with the OP's question? Rick George is never going to be able to sell seven partisan people on the benefits of a strong football program. If it was one University President or one President and a Chancellor or whatever, it can be done, but is the BOR setup with CU the main issue with football success?
 
hokiehead said:
great points.

I'm legit surprised at those attendance numbers though. i watch almost every UW game and have gotten very accustomed to seeing shots like the below when the camera pans over the grandstands. This may highlight the large discrepancy between reporting attendance as tickets distributed vs turnstile count (even accounting for the late arriving student section).

Camp-Randall-Endzone.jpg
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Are the teams even on the sideline yet in that shot? Doesn't look like it to me. This feels like it could be a half hour before kickoff.
 
Robert Sorell said:
Are the teams even on the sideline yet in that shot? Doesn't look like it to me. This feels like it could be a half hour before kickoff.
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Zooming in on the scoreboard, the clock says 20:43, so must be about 20+ minutes before kickoff. Also I’m seeing “Lobos” as the visitor so this looks like it was from their 2018 game. Non-conference, weak opponent, prior to game start.
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
Is the fact that everything at CU pertaining to hiring and budget in the AD goes through a partisan Board of Regents part of the issue with the OP's question? Rick George is never going to be able to sell seven partisan people on the benefits of a strong football program. If it was one University President or one President and a Chancellor or whatever, it can be done, but is the BOR setup with CU the main issue with football success?
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it is a symptom not the cause
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
Is the fact that everything at CU pertaining to hiring and budget in the AD goes through a partisan Board of Regents part of the issue with the OP's question? Rick George is never going to be able to sell seven partisan people on the benefits of a strong football program. If it was one University President or one President and a Chancellor or whatever, it can be done, but is the BOR setup with CU the main issue with football success?
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Yes - but the answer isn't to vest power in "one" person.

Make the governance structure like almost every other state university in the entire country where the fairly large board is made of up of appointees by the governor. It's the fact that they're elected positions that makes them beholden to partisan stupidity.

Political appointees have some of that, but not nearly as much. It's not a "high power" or "high profile" appointment, and it's not a "stepping stone" position (vs anytime you actually 'win' an election to win office, it's actually a pretty good stepping stone). The biggest "perk" to the office is good seats for football and basketball games and a little "retreat" weekend on school's dime once a year. And... it's actually a bit of work. And really, the only folks who are interested are alumni...

So to sum up:
1. Not elected = not a stepping stone, so aspiring politicians won't try and get an appointment.
2. The position actually involves work, so the only people interested are folks who really want to further the university.
3. The biggest perks are sports tickets.

Now, ask yourself, do you think a board made of appointees from the last 3 governors would be more or less inclined to support football than the current board?
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
I don't see how the governing body of the administration that lacks the desire to support football to the fullest extent is a symptom. If that's the case, what's the cause?
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The cause is the overarching zeitgeist of the CU administration, the academic elites, and the town of Boulder, that thinks that the only worthwhile endeavors are cancer research, social justice, studying climate change, and gender issues.
The Berkeley envy crowd has been calling the shots at CU since Gordon Gee left and our football team has been going downhill ever since.
 
SBP said:
The cause is the overarching zeitgeist of the CU administration, the academic elites, and the town of Boulder, that thinks that the only worthwhile endeavors are cancer research, social justice, studying climate change, and gender issues.
The Berkeley envy crowd has been calling the shots at CU since Gordon Gee left and our football team has been going downhill ever since.
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Thanks for posting, this represents what many believe to be true however you're going to branded a "boomer that smells like jello & piss". 1/2 of the posters here weren't around when Gee was at CU and don't have a clue what you're talking about.
You reap what you sow
 
Always BUFF said:
Thanks for posting, this represents what many believe to be true however you're going to branded a "boomer that smells like jello & piss". 1/2 of the posters here weren't around when Gee was at CU and don't have a clue what you're talking about.
You reap what you sow
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Hey whoa! Not a boomer….Gen Xer.

Our motto…”Doing next to nothing since 1964”
 
Always BUFF said:
Thanks for posting, this represents what many believe to be true however you're going to branded a "boomer that smells like jello & piss". 1/2 of the posters here weren't around when Gee was at CU and don't have a clue what you're talking about.
You reap what you sow
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To be clear, the "boomer that smells like jello & piss" brand was only directed at you specifically and unrelated to your beliefs.
 
Last edited:
Always BUFF said:
I may be alone in this, CU should've hired Cabral as head coach after Hawkins.
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If we were going to hire a Buff to keep around for 2 years of transition to the next qualified HC we would hire, I agree in hindsight that Cabral would have been a better choice than Embree.

(I think that's probably the closest to someone agreeing with you that you're gonna get.)
 
CU can win. Get a coach that recruits top three in the PAC consistently. Get an internal control system that polices the academics and discipline. House the men in a football dorm unless married.
Prosper.

Get them in, keep them in. It’s not rocket science. We just haven’t had the complete package in a very long time.
 
pcbuff said:
CU can win. Get a coach that recruits top three in the PAC consistently. Get an internal control system that polices the academics and discipline. House the men in a football dorm unless married.
Prosper.

Get them in, keep them in. It’s not rocket science. We just haven’t had the complete package in a very long time.
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"Get a coach that recruits in the top three in the Pac consistently"

Jim Carrey Alrighty Then GIF by Ace Ventura
 
Buffnik said:
If we were going to hire a Buff to keep around for 2 years of transition to the next qualified HC we would hire, I agree in hindsight that Cabral would have been a better choice than Embree.

(I think that's probably the closest to someone agreeing with you that you're gonna get.)
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The last of the Mac coaching tree and a safe hire buying time for a longer term hire.
Thinking out loud had Bohner pulled the trigger sooner and not waited for the KU debacle we go bowling.
It's Allbuffs agreement isn't an option.
 
pcbuff said:
CU can win. Get a coach that recruits top three in the PAC consistently. Get an internal control system that polices the academics and discipline. House the men in a football dorm unless married.
Prosper.

Get them in, keep them in. It’s not rocket science. We just haven’t had the complete package in a very long time.
Click to expand...
What a pretty picture you paint with such clarity...10 yrs too late.
 
Always BUFF said:
The last of the Mac coaching tree and a safe hire buying time for a longer term hire.
Thinking out loud had Bohner pulled the trigger sooner and not waited for the KU debacle we go bowling.
It's Allbuffs agreement isn't an option.
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Why did we need some kind of placeholder head coach after Hawkins?
 
pcbuff said:
CU can win. Get a coach that recruits top three in the PAC consistently. Get an internal control system that polices the academics and discipline. House the men in a football dorm unless married.
Prosper.

Get them in, keep them in. It’s not rocket science. We just haven’t had the complete package in a very long time.
Click to expand...
Well ****, it's that easy. Can we get RG in on this, this is next level
 
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