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Official 2017 Coaching Carousel Thread - Zona hires Sumlin

TSchekler said:
Replacing Lindsay is the biggest issue. Everybody else that starts right now is JAG and should be competing for their jobs from day one of Spring Camp.
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heh, they're always replaceable on paper until we actually have to replace them.

The WRs behind them look promising enough, but do we really know? Winfree was a savior before last year and this year but can't beat out JayMac to get on the field. Ento is Jerry Rice incarnate apparently, but again, couldn't beat out the JAGS. Irwin has been our left tackle for the last 9 years, he might be somewhat hard to replace and Kough was our LG for the last 7 1/2 years. And last but certainly not least, we're trading Lindsay for Donovan Lee and Kyle Evans. Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
 
TSchekler said:
What was he supposed to say when asked about the defense possibly regressing due to losing 8 starters? "Yeah, the defense lost a lot of experience, talent and leadership and it's going to be a long year for that side of the ball." You know that's not how a coach speaks about his team in the preseason. He neither said they would be great, or that they would be awful. I don't have any issue with his credibility because of the preseason narrative.
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It does not have to be one extreme or the other. But flat-out saying the team was not really losing eight starters was horse ****. And it gets to a larger point which is that he possibly misread the talent and depth on that side of the ball. I do not think that is something to be easily brushed aside.
 
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I just popped over and looked at university of central florida's roster/recruiting rankings/recruiting stars last 4 years and player size and weight... amazing what they have been able to do. I am and never have been a scott frost fan. I always thought he was riding the tails of kelly. No wonder his name is a hot commodity these days. He guided some of the best oregon offenses from a production stand point and look at what ucf is doing now. Amazing.
 
White_Rabbit said:
heh, they're always replaceable on paper until we actually have to replace them.

The WRs behind them look promising enough, but do we really know? Winfree was a savior before last year and this year but can't beat out JayMac to get on the field. Ento is Jerry Rice incarnate apparently, but again, couldn't beat out the JAGS. Irwin has been our left tackle for the last 9 years, he might be somewhat hard to replace and Kough was our LG for the last 7 1/2 years. And last but certainly not least, we're trading Lindsay for Donovan Lee and Kyle Evans. Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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:LOL:
 
White_Rabbit said:
heh, they're always replaceable on paper until we actually have to replace them.

The WRs behind them look promising enough, but do we really know? Winfree was a savior before last year and this year but can't beat out JayMac to get on the field. Ento is Jerry Rice incarnate apparently, but again, couldn't beat out the JAGS. Irwin has been our left tackle for the last 9 years, he might be somewhat hard to replace and Kough was our LG for the last 7 1/2 years. And last but certainly not least, we're trading Lindsay for Donovan Lee and Kyle Evans. Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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Yeah, I'm not saying it's a good problem to have, just more pointing out that we aren't replacing a bunch of NFL guys like we had to with the defense this year. We're replacing a bunch of marginally talented players with seemingly little to no heart and a lot of entitlement.
 
Darth Snow said:
I bought the narrative that the D wasn't losing as much as we thought it was. And it was supported early on. But things fell apart and now you have to ask why? If they get better, the narrative probably was ok. If they don't.... how in the world was he so wrong about the D and the O? That's a real bad sign.
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Exactly.

I think the talk of firing MacIntyre is absurd, but I hope some tough questions are asked going forward. Some of the depth issues on this team are self-inflicted, which indicates to me there are some big blind spots to be addressed.
 
Duff Man said:
Exactly.

I think the talk of firing MacIntyre is absurd, but I hope some tough questions are asked going forward. Some of the depth issues on this team are self-inflicted, which indicates to me there are some big blind spots to be addressed.
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Had Falo, Julmisse and Umu been on the team and starting/contributing (which they all surely would have been), and DMac was playing at his pre-injury level, what kind of difference do you think it might have made? I know, I know, "ifs and buts"... Humor me. Would it have made enough of a positive difference on defense to win the two close games with Arizona and UCLA? Would the Oregon State game been as close as it was? It obviously doesn't matter and it should only strengthen the argument of poor recruiting and depth, but I don't think it's a stretch to say if all preseason hands were on deck, things might look different today.
 
I think it is pretty clear that losing Falo was a big hit to the outside linebacker unit, but the other two were more about depth (even though I projected both to start before the season). Those losses hurt but don't explain some of the performances this year.
 
TSchekler said:
Yeah, I'm not saying it's a good problem to have, just more pointing out that we aren't replacing a bunch of NFL guys like we had to with the defense this year. We're replacing a bunch of marginally talented players with seemingly little to no heart and a lot of entitlement.
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For sure. I'm just saying, losing a lot of experience doesn't seem easy to replace under Mac. I wouldn't even say we're returning anyone "key" with Montez now being a huge question mark going forward. I guess Lynott?
 
I still think something behind the scenes has fractured this team. Those guys would have made a difference, they are also possibly part of the problem?
 
onealcd said:
I think it is pretty clear that losing Falo was a big hit to the outside linebacker unit, but the other two were more about depth (even though I projected both to start before the season). Those losses hurt but don't explain some of the performances this year.
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When Uddofia went down it made a big difference. I would rather have Julmisse lining up out there than Wigley.
 
Gary Indiana said:
When Uddofia went down it made a big difference. I would rather have Julmisse lining up out there than Wigley.
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Yes you would rather have Julmisse out there but it wasn't like Wigley was awful, he has actually played pretty well and continues to get better IMO. What I am trying to say is that the dropoff from Julmisse-Wigley and Umu-Franke/Tuiloma isn't as big as the dropoff from Falo to Hasselback (which really hurts).
 
When the coaches thought our offense was going to be great this year, and the defense was holding its own in practice and scrimmages, I’m sure the thought was “Hey, this defense may be much better than we thought!” When it really should have been “I know this defense is going to be lucky to be average, we have serious problems on offense to go with it we now need to solve.”

Echo chamber and all that.

This is where eliminating FCS teams from the official schedule, but being able to scrimmage one in the spring and one half way through fall camp for a medium size pay day would be huge as an external litmus test rather than just playing against yourself all the time.
 
BuffUp said:
Right? I am not sure if it is bad coaching with technique or bad play design? Hard to think all 4/5 players regressed that much.
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It's not just the 4/5 players, though. It's the backups who all got an extra year of experience. By now, using the recruit and develop plan that MM has been using (whether by design or necessity), the OL should be the cornerstone of this football team. They've been horrible.
 
sackman said:
Ill know it when I see it. I knew Hawkins needed to go after the CSU fiasco. I knew Embree needed to go after Fresno. MM still has this team and I believe he can get it turned back around. I sincerely hope he ****-cans DJ Eliot. Eliot has been a nightmare. Horrible hire. Completely over his head.
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I disagree that MM has the team. In fact, my read on the players is that he has lost his voice with this team. And the fact that he hired Eliot is another issue. If MM remains on campus next season and the team does poorly, recruiting will be down again in 2019 and 2020 (from already mediocre recruiting in a brand new facility). I don't think RG has the luxury of waiting around on a coach who only has 2 winning season's as a head coach and having to build again from the bottom up. Maybe CU gets lucky and MM bolts for Ole Miss or another job after this season, if not RG will make the tough call and bring in a coach who can recruit and bring W's back to campus with consistency.
 
RG isn't going to fire MM unless something crazy happens. Just going 4-8 won't be enough for MM to lose his job. MM has earned a lot of rope.
 
TSchekler said:
Had Falo, Julmisse and Umu been on the team and starting/contributing (which they all surely would have been), and DMac was playing at his pre-injury level, what kind of difference do you think it might have made? I know, I know, "ifs and buts"... Humor me. Would it have made enough of a positive difference on defense to win the two close games with Arizona and UCLA? Would the Oregon State game been as close as it was? It obviously doesn't matter and it should only strengthen the argument of poor recruiting and depth, but I don't think it's a stretch to say if all preseason hands were on deck, things might look different today.
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We miss Falo and Julmisse, but I tend to view Umu as part of the larger high school DL recruiting problem, not as any sort of solution.

As far as people talking about MacIntyre being fired... can any of you tell me where the money is going to come from for that buyout and to hire a new coach in the same pay range?
 
Duff Man said:
Exactly.

I think the talk of firing MacIntyre is absurd, but I hope some tough questions are asked going forward. Some of the depth issues on this team are self-inflicted, which indicates to me there are some big blind spots to be addressed.
Click to expand...

sackman said:
RG isn't going to fire MM unless something crazy happens. Just going 4-8 won't be enough for MM to lose his job. MM has earned a lot of rope.
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Agree with both of you but as Duff states, the questions should be getting pretty pointed and tough. He has a lot to answer for on this one. The O should just not be this bad with all we had coming back. The Oline is hot garbage and the regression by Montez is hard to believe. The D I expected to drop off but I thought we would be able to score enough to win at least 6 to 7 (I predicted 8). Seat gets warm if with a o-fer finish. Not bowling is a huge issue.
 
I do not believe that MacIntyre will be fired until after the 2019 season regardless of what happens. So people better accept he will be here for the foreseeable future. MacIntyre is here for $3 million per year and I don't see CU having the appetite to eat more than $6 million (if that).
 
sackman said:
RG isn't going to fire MM unless something crazy happens. Just going 4-8 won't be enough for MM to lose his job. MM has earned a lot of rope.
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YearWinnerSchool
1994Bobby Bowden[1]Florida State
1995Gary Barnett[1]Northwestern
1996Rich Brooks[1]Oregon
1997Mike Price[1]Washington State
1998Phillip Fulmer[1]Tennessee
1999Tom Osborne[1]Nebraska
2000Bob Stoops[1]Oklahoma
2001Ralph Friedgen[1]Maryland
2002Tyrone Willingham[1]Notre Dame
2003Pete Carroll[1]USC
2004Urban Meyer[2]Utah
2005Joe Paterno[3]Penn State
2006Greg Schiano[4]Rutgers
2007Mark Mangino[5]Kansas
2008Nick Saban[6]Alabama
2009Brian Kelly[7]Cincinnati
2010Gene Chizik[8]Auburn
2011Les Miles[9]LSU
2012Brian Kelly[10]Notre Dame
2013Gus Malzahn[11]Auburn
2014Gary Patterson[12]TCU
2015Dabo Swinney[13]Clemson
2016Mike MacIntyre[14]Colorado
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Previous Home Depot Coach of the Year winners. I don't really care that he won the coach of the year but I think it shows a point. Are there some flash in the pan guys (Mangino anyone)? Absolutely, but there are a lot more great coaches in there than bad ones. I don't think one bad season is enough to forget about the ridiculous job he did turning around the program.
 
dwyermj said:
YearWinnerSchool
1994Bobby Bowden[1]Florida State
1995Gary Barnett[1]Northwestern
1996Rich Brooks[1]Oregon
1997Mike Price[1]Washington State
1998Phillip Fulmer[1]Tennessee
1999Tom Osborne[1]Nebraska
2000Bob Stoops[1]Oklahoma
2001Ralph Friedgen[1]Maryland
2002Tyrone Willingham[1]Notre Dame
2003Pete Carroll[1]USC
2004Urban Meyer[2]Utah
2005Joe Paterno[3]Penn State
2006Greg Schiano[4]Rutgers
2007Mark Mangino[5]Kansas
2008Nick Saban[6]Alabama
2009Brian Kelly[7]Cincinnati
2010Gene Chizik[8]Auburn
2011Les Miles[9]LSU
2012Brian Kelly[10]Notre Dame
2013Gus Malzahn[11]Auburn
2014Gary Patterson[12]TCU
2015Dabo Swinney[13]Clemson
2016Mike MacIntyre[14]Colorado
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Previous Home Depot Coach of the Year winners. I don't really care that he won the coach of the year but I think it shows a point. Are there some flash in the pan guys (Mangino anyone)? Absolutely, but there are a lot more great coaches in there than bad ones. I don't think one bad season is enough to forget about the ridiculous job he did turning around the program.
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How was Dr Tom COY two years after he retired?
 
TSchekler said:
Had Falo, Julmisse and Umu been on the team and starting/contributing (which they all surely would have been), and DMac was playing at his pre-injury level, what kind of difference do you think it might have made? I know, I know, "ifs and buts"... Humor me. Would it have made enough of a positive difference on defense to win the two close games with Arizona and UCLA? Would the Oregon State game been as close as it was? It obviously doesn't matter and it should only strengthen the argument of poor recruiting and depth, but I don't think it's a stretch to say if all preseason hands were on deck, things might look different today.
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Not sure about UCLA, but Falo sure couldn't have hurt in the Arizona game when we could NOT contain the QB. Falo has a lot more athleticism than the guys who replaced him.
 
sackman said:
I'd be far more forgiving of the problems we are having his year if we weren't told how great everything was all through Spring and Fall practices. If expectations need to be tempered, temper them. Don't blow smoke up my skirt and hope things turn out OK.
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Don't listen to coaches about expectations, they'll tell you what everybody wants to hear. What are they supposed to say really? We are terrible.
 
BlackNGold said:
I do not believe that MacIntyre will be fired until after the 2019 season regardless of what happens. So people better accept he will be here for the foreseeable future. MacIntyre is here for $3 million per year and I don't see CU having the appetite to eat more than $6 million (if that).
Click to expand...

I agree that we can't afford to make a move right now. MacIntyre is going to be on a fairly warm seat going into next year if he can't get this group into a bowl game this year for two reasons-One, the 2019 OOC has home games with Nebraska and Air Force.......which in themselves will be huge moneymakers.....even before we start talking about USC and Washington (If my thinking on the scheduling rotations is correct Oregon State falls off for two years after next year-Correct me if I'm wrong) playing here during league. That's going to be the sexiest home schedule we've had in YEARS. Two, RG has set some pretty bold goals for this program in the years to come. He's not the kind of guy who would talk about winning the Pac 12, etc. and then keep around a football coach who underachieves.
 
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