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Official 2017 Coaching Carousel Thread - Zona hires Sumlin

sackman said:
I’m not going to get into an argument over whether UF is a top ten program. Only a fool would argue otherwise.
Click to expand...
Always with the vague generalizations.

Which of these are indisputably below Florida, such that only a fool with argue otherwise?
  1. Michigan
  2. Notre Dame
  3. Texas
  4. Ohio State
  5. Alabama
  6. Oklahoma
  7. USC
  8. Georgia
  9. LSU
  10. Auburn
  11. Texas A&M
  12. Clemson
  13. Washington
Again - it takes more than top recruiting grounds to be a top program.
  • They've won 3 conference championships in the past 21 years
  • They have 1 undefeated conference record for a season during that stretch
  • That time frame straddles both Spurrier and Meyer - I just didn't bother going farther back because I thought that was good enough
Yes, they are a top program, but indisputably top 10? Maybe not. And note your argument was actually that they are Top 5 and then backed off because you knew you were blowing smoke out your ass! ;)
 
leftybuff said:
So the Oregon job is the gig that makes him a top tier candidate, and at the same time bars him from taking a top tier job. That's a weird gig up there in Eugene.
Click to expand...

No, but is a good enough job that people should not call him "foolish" or think he is crazy for staying there awhile, job offers from other schools notwithstanding.
 
Highlander said:
Always with the vague generalizations.

Which of these are indisputably below Florida, such that only a fool with argue otherwise?
  1. Michigan
  2. Notre Dame
  3. Texas
  4. Ohio State
  5. Alabama
  6. Oklahoma
  7. USC
  8. Georgia
  9. LSU
  10. Auburn
  11. Texas A&M
  12. Clemson
  13. Washington
Again - it takes more than top recruiting grounds to be a top program.
  • They've won 3 conference championships in the past 21 years
  • They have 1 undefeated conference record for a season during that stretch
  • That time frame straddles both Spurrier and Meyer - I just didn't bother going farther back because I thought that was good enough
Yes, they are a top program, but indisputably top 10? Maybe not. And note your argument was actually that they are Top 5 and then backed off because you knew you were blowing smoke out your ass! ;)
Click to expand...
  1. Michigan-Yes
  2. Notre Dame-Yes
  3. Texas-No
  4. Ohio State-No
  5. Alabama-No
  6. Oklahoma-Yes
  7. USC-No
  8. Georgia-Yes
  9. LSU-Yes
  10. Auburn-Yes
  11. Texas A&M-Yes
  12. Clemson-Yes
  13. Washington-Yes
 
Duff Man said:
No. He only had the USF job at that point.
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I see the gamble from Florida's side, but I still don't see it on his part. Are you trying to say that he's still very young and likely to fail as a HC, so taking the Florida job now would be a gamble for later in his coaching career?
 
like the game - 'which would be the least worst way to die?' Here is another version.

If MM where to take another job this year, which of the following HCs could you come around to?
a) Steve Sarkisian
b) Art Briles
c) Sparkles
d) Charlie Weis
e) Rick Neuheisel

your answer is a mirror into your soul
 
TSchekler said:
I see the gamble from Florida's side, but I still don't see it on his part. Are you trying to say that he's still very young and likely to fail as a HC, so taking the Florida job now would be a gamble for later in his coaching career?
Click to expand...

I am saying leaving any P5 head coaching job for another P5 job is a red flag and the previous examples listed in this thread seem to support that notion.

There seems to be conventional wisdom about really good jobs not coming open often, but is that really true? If it is not true, why would there be this mad rush for him to take the Florida job right now?
 
Duff Man said:
No, but is a good enough job that people should not call him "foolish" or think he is crazy for staying there awhile, job offers from other schools notwithstanding.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't call him foolish if he stayed. If UF offers and he stays, fine. OTOH, he would not be foolish to collect a pile of money from UF and leave after a year either. If UF offers big money, and they likely will, UF paid McElwain 4.45M, UO is paying him 2.9M, I don't see why in the world he would say no. If anybody comes along and offers you a 35% pay raise, pretty much anybody is going to jump on it.
 
leftybuff said:
I wouldn't call him foolish if he stayed. If UF offers and he stays, fine. OTOH, he would not be foolish to collect a pile of money from UF and leave after a year either. If UF offers big money, and they likely will, UF paid McElwain 4.45M, UO is paying him 2.9M, I don't see why in the world he would say no. If anybody comes along and offers you a 35% pay raise, pretty much anybody is going to jump on it.
Click to expand...

Money makes a lot more sense than some sort of vague "this caliber of job is rarely open" reasoning.
 
Duff Man said:
I am saying leaving any P5 head coaching job for another P5 job is a red flag and the previous examples listed in this thread seem to support that notion.

There seems to be conventional wisdom about really good jobs not coming open often, but is that really true? If it is not true, why would there be this mad rush for him to take the Florida job right now?
Click to expand...
I don't think it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for him or anything, and I'm sure he'll get to pick his job down the road, if he keeps winning, but I still don't understand why he wouldn't take a step up, if offered. IMO, it's a bigger gamble for him to stay at Oregon and tread in the waters of mediocrity for the next few years and not be on anyone's short list next time a better job comes open.

Do you think Mike MacIntyre leaving for Tennessee would be a gamble on his part?
 
TSchekler said:
I don't think it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for him or anything, and I'm sure he'll get to pick his job down the road, if he keeps winning, but I still don't understand why he wouldn't take a step up, if offered. IMO, it's a bigger gamble for him to stay at Oregon and tread in the waters of mediocrity for the next few years and not be on anyone's short list next time a better job comes open.

Do you think Mike MacIntyre leaving for Tennessee would be a gamble on his part?
Click to expand...

I just think the gamble is pretty low with his current situation at Oregon. The outlook there is good.

MacIntyre is a different situation entirely. Leaving after five years versus one year is a big difference and gives a coach a much better idea of if he is ready to embrace a new job.
 
Duff Man said:
I think Georgia and Oklahoma can make a good argument for being in the same ballpark.
Click to expand...
Georgia seems to be a lot like Florida just not in Florida which I see as a negative. Oklahoma falls into the places I would never, ever, ever want to live category and so dependent on out of state recruiting and how good Texas is at the moment. Great jobs, but I'd take Florida all day over those.
 
UF could be his dream job, or more importantly, his wife's!

It might keep opening every 3 years, but I'd take the bet that it stays filled for a long time. Lower expectations, good talent base, UF still paying CSU until 2020.....
 
8Jah said:
like the game - 'which would be the least worst way to die?' Here is another version.

If MM where to take another job this year, which of the following HCs could you come around to?
a) Steve Sarkisian
b) Art Briles
c) Sparkles
d) Charlie Weis
e) Rick Neuheisel

your answer is a mirror into your soul
Click to expand...
If that is the best we can do, we have bigger problems. I'll take Mark Mangino.
 
SINKRATZ said:
Georgia seems to be a lot like Florida just not in Florida which I see as a negative. Oklahoma falls into the places I would never, ever, ever want to live category and so dependent on out of state recruiting and how good Texas is at the moment. Great jobs, but I'd take Florida all day over those.
Click to expand...
And living in Gainesville is not the Florida beaches, it’s the northern redneck swampland.
 
SpacemanSpiff said:
Just curious. What makes that job overrated?
Click to expand...
IMO, it's overrated because it's a Texas program in the SEC, that produced a polarizing Heisman winner who beat Alabama a few years back and all of the sudden people think they should be on Alabama's level. The reality is...

- 22nd all time in wins
- 0 Nattys in the relevant era (they claim 3 in 1919, 1927 and 1939)
- 1 Big 12 Championship in 1998
- 3 Division titles (all Big 12)
- Always going to play 2nd fiddle to UT for state attention and recruiting
- Massive pressure and expectations from boosters and fanbase
- Competes with 4 other P5 programs in its own state for recruits

They may have the resources to pay a coach extremely well and buy new facilities, but that job comes with all the headaches of a blue blood program, with absolutely no precedent that the upside is actually there.

Take a look at CU's comparable resume...

- 33rd all time in wins (30 behind A&M)
- 1 Natty
- 1 Big 12 Championship in 2001
- 5 Division Titles (4 Big 12 North and 1 Pac 12 South)
- Flagship program of the state
- Virtually no pressure or expectations from boosters or fans compared to A&M
- Has the allure of leaving Texas/CA

Obviously, the $$$ at A&M is on a different level than CU will ever be, which automatically makes it a better job, but outside of that is it really that great?
 
Buffnik said:
And living in Gainesville is not the Florida beaches, it’s the northern redneck swampland.
Click to expand...
Don't care - Oklahoma is a wasteland. The weather is better in Florida, palm trees, no income tax, SEC, prettier girls, no 1000 mile conference road trips to West Virginia, better school, less annoying mascot.
 
TSchekler said:
IMO, it's overrated because it's a Texas program in the SEC, that produced a polarizing Heisman winner who beat Alabama a few years back and all of the sudden people think they should be on Alabama's level. The reality is...

- 22nd all time in wins
- 0 Nattys in the relevant era (they claim 3 in 1919, 1927 and 1939)
- 1 Big 12 Championship in 1998
- 3 Division titles (all Big 12)
- Always going to play 2nd fiddle to UT for state attention and recruiting
- Massive pressure and expectations from boosters and fanbase
- Competes with 4 other P5 programs in its own state for recruits

They may have the resources to pay a coach extremely well and buy new facilities, but that job comes with all the headaches of a blue blood program, with absolutely no precedent that the upside is actually there.

Take a look at CU's comparable resume...

- 33rd all time in wins (30 behind A&M)
- 1 Natty
- 1 Big 12 Championship in 2001
- 5 Division Titles (4 Big 12 North and 1 Pac 12 South)
- Flagship program of the state
- Virtually no pressure or expectations from boosters or fans compared to A&M
- Has the allure of leaving Texas/CA

Obviously, the $$$ at A&M is on a different level than CU will ever be, which automatically makes it a better job, but outside of that is it really that great?
Click to expand...
All good points. I guess I don't consider A&M rated all that highly as a job by most people and I think it has some things going for it (location for recruiting, deep pockets, fanatically supportive fan base, desire to not be second best with UT, etc). Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming that it's a top tier job, just that I don't think it is overrated.
 
What would be the chances this happens?
Bobo to a low tier SEC job, and....







Sparkles back to CSU?
 
Highlander said:
Always with the vague generalizations.

Which of these are indisputably below Florida, such that only a fool with argue otherwise?
  1. Michigan
  2. Notre Dame - yup
  3. Texas
  4. Ohio State
  5. Alabama -yup
  6. Oklahoma-yup
  7. USC
  8. Georgia- yup
  9. LSU- yup
  10. Auburn-yup
  11. Texas A&M-yup
  12. Clemson- yup
  13. Washington-yup
Click to expand...

I’m really not going to argue this. It’s absurd. Of the above, the only one thats arguable is ND. And yes, I think UF is a top 5 school, but I won’t call somebody a moron for saying “maybe top Ten”. I’m not basing it on recruiting alone. It’s a combination of recruiting, admin support, TV clout, conference affiliation, geography, facilities, academic prestige, national exposure, and alumni/fan support. Combine all those things together and UF is clearly top ten, and probably top five. Now stop trying to argue otherwise.
 
sackman said:
I’m really not going to argue this. It’s absurd. Of the above, the only one thats arguable is ND. And yes, I think UF is a top 5 school, but I won’t call somebody a moron for saying “maybe top Ten”. I’m not basing it on recruiting alone. It’s a combination of recruiting, admin support, TV clout, conference affiliation, geography, facilities, academic prestige, national exposure, and alumni/fan support. Combine all those things together and UF is clearly top ten, and probably top five. Now stop trying to argue otherwise.
Click to expand...

Do not argue with Sackman, world traveler, American, knower of all.
 
sackman said:
I’m really not going to argue this. It’s absurd. Of the above, the only one thats arguable is ND. And yes, I think UF is a top 5 school, but I won’t call somebody a moron for saying “maybe top Ten”. I’m not basing it on recruiting alone. It’s a combination of recruiting, admin support, TV clout, conference affiliation, geography, facilities, academic prestige, national exposure, and alumni/fan support. Combine all those things together and UF is clearly top ten, and probably top five. Now stop trying to argue otherwise.
Click to expand...
Top 5 in the SEC? I’d agree with that. Case could be made for top 3 based on the recent run Urban had
 
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