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Official 2020 Fall Camp Thread

I think we, as fans, probably overemphasize recruiting. It’s obviously important, but a great recruiter who is a ****ty coach Is going to have roughly the same record as a ****ty recruiter who is a great coach. See: Scott Frost. A guy who recruits in the 50’s can outperform somebody who recruits in the 30’s. See: Boise State.

None of that is meant as an excuse for the recruiting effort we are getting now. It’s merely to point out that it is probably a little soon to characterize this staff as incompetent. At the end of the day, if we recruit in the 50’s and win 8 games a year, nobody will care.
 
Boise State consistently ranks in the top two in their conference in recruiting.

Michigan State right now is a cautionary tale on never taking the next step in recruiting. When it worked under Dantonio, it really worked. When it did not, the bottom fell out.
 
Recruiting is the lifeblood of any program. You can't deny that and you need coaches who can and will recruit at a high level at the P5. I do agree that this staff has been a failure in recruiting at that high level. The whole give them time is a little hollow to me, but I don't think there has ever been a coaching staff who was put in a weirder situation with the timing of the hires and covid restrictions. CU has major disadvantages with who they can hire because of money. You can't deny that either.

I most certainly not making excuses for their recruiting, however; there are good recruiters on this staff that have proven to be good recruiters at the P5 level (there are really two coaches who are major head scratches to me). You don't just all of a sudden not know how to recruit. I feel as if there is something bigger at play right now and if we are having this same discussion with the 2021 class, then by all means, we can start throwing out the incompetent takes.

Pate, your take is good. I'm not sure if there is a coaching staff in a weirder situation this year. The one thing I'd add is a glass half-full sort of observation, being that if CU's on field performance and coaching is somehow better this year or exceeds expectations (maybe the defense takes another step, maybe the offense is not as bad as we predict; I'm not saying they win 4 or more games, the over/unless is like 1.5?), then CU/HCKD has a chance or momentum to turn things around recruiting wise. It may be an anomouly, as new staffs usually do not have much success, but this last class is our best in 15 years, so maybe there is some hope. I hope from the players and coaching standpoint, it is an us against the world. For all of the past coaches back to coach MACI (excluding Neuheisal, although they had a few bad losses, his 1st years were 9-10 win seasons), CU had bad losses under new regimes. Maybe time or luck could somehow be on KD's and the Buffs side.

I don't have much in the way of expectations, but I'd say MAC2's biggest failure was his recruiting dud after a 10 win season and winning coach of the year honors. I think HCKD needs to get some wins and recruiting fortunes may change for 2022. I hope our luck turns out with the younger guys and they surprise with a huge chip on their shoulder.
 
I think we, as fans, probably overemphasize recruiting. It’s obviously important, but a great recruiter who is a ****ty coach Is going to have roughly the same record as a ****ty recruiter who is a great coach. See: Scott Frost. A guy who recruits in the 50’s can outperform somebody who recruits in the 30’s. See: Boise State.

None of that is meant as an excuse for the recruiting effort we are getting now. It’s merely to point out that it is probably a little soon to characterize this staff as incompetent. At the end of the day, if we recruit in the 50’s and win 8 games a year, nobody will care.

I think a great coaching staff and a well defined and successful culture can make up for a relative lack of talent, last year Utah was 7th in the 247 team composite talent rankings, CU was 8th (this year they are the same). Those were 2 very different teams but Utah is generally acknowledged as having one of the best staffs in terms of development.

That is an elite staff (in terms of coaching talent) with a very established and well defined culture recruiting consistent classes with an average of 85-86.

So far this staff doesn't seem to be at the 85-86 level but hopefully they get there and hopefully they are elite from a coaching and establishing culture perspective.

The danger is what @Duff Man pointed out. If the staff doesn't turn out to be those things you end up with an empty cupboard. At least if you have an elite recruiter that doesn't work out or leaves (like Tucker) they leave behind the talent.
 
I understand the risks. I just think we probably put a bit too much emphasis on recruiting. Yes, it’s very important, but again, classifying this staff as incompetent because they are stinking it up on the recruiting trail, but before they have coached a single game, is premature. They could turn out to be incompetent - and their recruiting problems will certainly be a contributing factor if that’s the case - but I think it’s appropriate to at least see how they do with the players they have in an actual game first.

I also find it troubling that the current staff doesn’t seem to take recruiting as seriously as they should. The game plan appears to be pretty unfocused. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to be highly critical of the staff on those kinds of issues.
 
I think a great coaching staff and a well defined and successful culture can make up for a relative lack of talent, last year Utah was 7th in the 247 team composite talent rankings, CU was 8th (this year they are the same). Those were 2 very different teams but Utah is generally acknowledged as having one of the best staffs in terms of development.

That is an elite staff (in terms of coaching talent) with a very established and well defined culture recruiting consistent classes with an average of 85-86.

So far this staff doesn't seem to be at the 85-86 level but hopefully they get there and hopefully they are elite from a coaching and establishing culture perspective.

The danger is what @Duff Man pointed out. If the staff doesn't turn out to be those things you end up with an empty cupboard. At least if you have an elite recruiter that doesn't work out or leaves (like Tucker) they leave behind the talent.

That is another good take. Utah is a very well coached fb team. This Staff does is not anywhere close to that level but if they can get more from less, then hopefully they can build some momentum. I think aside from the coaches who turned CU down, CU's gamble this year was four fold: (1) getting someone who wants to coach in Boulder long term; (2) getting someone who would take on the assistants that stayed; (3) keeping MT's recruiting class in tact; and (4) perhaps betting that KD's organization and experience will somehow lead to a great coaching staff with stability. If #'s 3-4 are a flail, then it will be an empty cupboard, as MT's recruits and other upper-classmen will transfer and recruiting will be down again. #4, IMO is the biggest gamble of them all.
 
Utah struggles to recruit because of where they are.
They benefit with good in-state pipeline but struggle to bring kids from anywhere else. Their in-state kids tend to be less heralded than they should be.
I think their recruits tend to be better than the services credit them for in general. In other words, they evaluate better than most.
Second they develop better than most.

If a staff could do that at CU, we'd then also recruit better than most.
Utah never will, because SLC is a ****-hole and the LDS thing.
CU could parlay on-field success into very good recruiting.
 
Recruiting is the lifeblood of any program. You can't deny that and you need coaches who can and will recruit at a high level at the P5. I do agree that this staff has been a failure in recruiting at that high level. The whole give them time is a little hollow to me, but I don't think there has ever been a coaching staff who was put in a weirder situation with the timing of the hires and covid restrictions. CU has major disadvantages with who they can hire because of money. You can't deny that either.

I most certainly not making excuses for their recruiting, however; there are good recruiters on this staff that have proven to be good recruiters at the P5 level (there are really two coaches who are major head scratches to me). You don't just all of a sudden not know how to recruit. I feel as if there is something bigger at play right now and if we are having this same discussion with the 2021 class, then by all means, we can start throwing out the incompetent takes.
The idea that you can overcome poor recruiting with good coaching is pure fantasy. Well coached teams "may" occasionally jump up and win some individual games against more talented programs but in the end wins and losses and talent level usually correspond fairly closely.

Unless you are a program that can draw recruits on name alone (Notre Dame, SC, tOSU, etc.) you can't afford to have assistants who don't recruit. The idea that a couple of "star" recruiters are going to fill your class while the rest focus on developing and coaching players is a recipe for disaster.

You can recruit or you can’t. The offers are going out to some real head scratchers already. You’re not going to convince me that the staff as currently constituted is competent. Sorry.
Recruiting is selling. Some guys can sell, others aren't cut out for it. Doesn't make them bad people but they can't sell (or recruit.) It goes past that though. Even guys who have ability to sell or recruit also have to have a drive in them. They have to have something that makes them willing to ignore rejection, to overcome objections, to battle through and even when they lose one (or more than one) to go after the next prospect with energy and enthusiasm and optimism and a belief that this one is going to result with a signature on the bottom line.

Utah struggles to recruit because of where they are.
They benefit with good in-state pipeline but struggle to bring kids from anywhere else. Their in-state kids tend to be less heralded than they should be.
I think their recruits tend to be better than the services credit them for in general. In other words, they evaluate better than most.
Second they develop better than most.

If a staff could do that at CU, we'd then also recruit better than most.
Utah never will, because SLC is a ****-hole and the LDS thing.
CU could parlay on-field success into very good recruiting.

Utah has some significant challenges but in the end they recruit above their level, and it shows in their win-loss records and the number of players they get drafted.

Part of this is that they identify where their recruiting strengths are and they hit those hard. They get most of the best players in state, they do very well with west coast Poly kids, they do well with the second tier kids in SoCal.

What they do much better than CU though is that their entire staff works at recruiting. Sure they have some who do better than others but they all work at it, they all focus on it.

I don't see that from CU and other than some push from Mel haven't seen that in Boulder since before GB shut it off after the so called scandal.

Does the administration have enough of a commitment to football for us to win? That is a legitimate question but right now the bigger question is if our staff has the commitment to win. They can talk about it but unless they get out there and recruit as a staff, put the work in, it won't matter.
 
Any idea when a starting QB will be named? It has to happen soon with game week coming up.
 

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If its Noyer.... have to hope for a sefo-like senior year miracle? I guess?

Noyer was a damn safety last year... what are we doing?
 
Not having a quarterback is something none of us saw coming in the last 3 years. Who could have anticipated this? Certainly not someone making 3 mil in Dorrell. And certainly not the 5 Mellion dollar man. Maybe Urban at 10 million? No human anywhere. Maybe Christ, but I heard he's no longer on the roster.
 
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