And thinking like this is how athletes get in financial trouble.
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Official Phillip Lindsay Really is the first undrafted rookie in the ProBowl Thread
- Thread starter Ringer
- Start date
And thinking like this is how athletes get in financial trouble.
That's a little dramatic. For reference, $15k is roughly .003% of Chubb's 2018 guaranteed earnings of nearly $5m. Equivalent to an individual making $100k/year picking up a $300 tab.
That's obviously not reflective of the majority of Rookies' financial situation, but then again, I don't imagine Devonte Booker is forcing Lindsay or David Williams to do that, and if he is, then I would wholeheartedly agree with you.
It starts with one tab.
It is a dumb practice that the NFL should be stopping (same with RBs "obligated" to buy their OL gifts).
DrunkRalphie
Well-Known Member
Agree, way to easy for "a little fun" to get way out of hand.
Big difference between building a group identity and building resentment but very easy to cross that line.
Ringer
Well-Known Member
It's just a fansite, but people are predicting a Broncos roster position for the Buffs' all time career leader in yards from scrimmage and all-purpose yards.
https://predominantlyorange.com/2018/08/16/denver-broncos-phillip-lindsay-proving-valuable-cut/
https://predominantlyorange.com/2018/08/16/denver-broncos-phillip-lindsay-proving-valuable-cut/
Bufffan68
Club Member
Call me crazy but I think grown men, mostly multimillionaires, can figure it out themselves...
Not healthy for teams, and we lose talent because of it. Teams should suffer together, or there should be a clearly articulated benefit of the pain (gas mask training for instance). Not rite of passage.
Not crazy, just willfully ignorant on the subject.
http://www.espn.com/30for30/film?page=broke
@Bufffan68 just read the description of this film, and then tell us if you think them being grown men or multimillionaires excuses a stupid form of hazing like paying for meals
Richie Incognito? Is that you?
This is truly funny!
This isn’t a situation where there’s actual pain and suffering involved, though, so I’m having trouble seeing how gas mask or other military training is relevant here. To me, that example is more relevant to the “pain and suffering” of these guys going through the grind of training camp together that strengthens their bond.
I'm not really a fan of hazing at all, but it is kind of a stretch to equate having to buy your team mates a meal once, with a large % of former players being broke. That has a lot more to do with them being a bunch of young people who come out of college into their first real job, making a ton of money, and thinking it will last forever when in reality for most it lasts 3 years. I don't care how much you make, but if you have few skills outside of playing football, and your career ends at age 24 or 25, you will run out of money.
It sets a bad precedent for them to start paying $15k for a meal. Don't be forced to do it the first time and maybe you won't ever do it. A culture needs to develop where semi-austerity is applauded rather than extravagant meals being the expectation.
On the flip side, I would hire a former professional or even college level athlete in a second. Drive and grit are highly transferable and sought after traits to many different professions. Skills can be learned. They just need to be put in the right situation and be willing to apply themselves with equal intensity to their new profession as they did to athletics.
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Completely agree on all this stuff- and another point is that it would be one thing if they were paying for a reasonable meal- you can get a very good meal for even $100/person, and even taking the entire 53 man roster out would be $5,300 (my understanding is that generally it's a much smaller group than that.
But you read about vets ordering $300 bottles of wine, and lobsters/steak to go for later. That's bull****.
But you read about vets ordering $300 bottles of wine, and lobsters/steak to go for later. That's bull****.
When I’ve seen the receipts from these dinners I am amazed at how much ****ty liquor and champagne they buy simply because it’s expensive. At least get some great scotch or something!!
I see how you're making your distinction. Let me try again.
Leaders of successful teams serve down. They serve down and don't expect to be served. A healthy team would be one in which every member wanted to pay, because they wanted to support their teammates. A leader of a healthy team would want to pay for the entire team because he/she (not specific to football) was serving down. Seasoned NFL players have nice salaries too.
Look, you're talking to a guy that used to be in charge of strapping the new guys to a ship's wheel and calling in the group of strippers to rip their clothes off and paddle them with spatulas (I know, I know... I think the statue of limitations has expired on all of those cases), so I'm familiar with the belief system around "rite of passage". I've grown past that.
In your question around military practices. Think about how Dick Winters was portrayed in Band of Brothers. Could you imagine him forcing his junior soldiers to buy him dinner? His great quote to Buck Compton was "never put yourself in a position to take anything from them." I think that's good advice.
It doesn't mean that good leaders are soft. Good leaders have high standards and demand accountability. And they serve down.
Really good post and I understand what you're saying. I think there are clear differences between the behavior and actions of an Officer leading a military unit and the hierarchy and group dynamics on an NFL team, though. I think a more apt comparison to the military examples would be if individual position coaches, coordinators and the head coach were partaking in the hazing, which they clearly are not. NFL player hazing would seem to be more like the junior enlisted men razzing each other.
I would hope that the veteran players would be viewed as leaders on the team. Often, in the military, that "razzing" turns into hazing which is destructive for teams. And keep in mind that the underlying assumption is that teams in the military are willing to die for one another, which creates an environment of trust and allows for the assumption of best intentions.
What's the foundation of trust in the NFL when a new guy shows up and has to carry the pads of somebody who should be his leader?
Somewhere along the way I was an Associate Professor at a solid university in D.C. and taught introductory leadership courses. I had an opportunity to sort through a fair amount of research on the topic of leadership and it's pretty consistent.
Good teams trust each other and have each others' backs. Good leaders (at all levels. This isn't an officer/enlisted or coach/player thing) serve down and foster that environment of trust.
Check out this video. I know that 45 minute videos tend to suck. But I think, based on your line of inquiry, you will find this 45 minutes well-spent.
I appreciate you turning me on to Simon. He is on point, and his bottom line is the basis for my dislike of President Trump. People are more apt to follow leaders when they truly believe that the leader has their best interest at heart. I don't think there is any aspect of his presidency (policy, domestic/international relationships, use of military, etc) that are motivated by his desire to serve the nation and its citizens. He can say, "MAGA" all day long, but when push comes to shove, I think everything he does is rooted in his all consuming case of narcissism.
Can we spend 3 or 4 pages discussing the proper body fat % for the Broncos offensive linemen? Its done wonders for the Buffs training camp thread.