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Official realignment thread - SEC formally invites OU and Texas to join the conference in 2025

onealcd

Club Member
Club Member
I know there is zero chance of this happening so don’t hit me with the replies but how ****ing awesome would it be free ACC came in and raided Florida and Georgia in a year lol?
 

CarolinaBuff

Club Member
Club Member
difficult to find information that quantifies brand ranking, but here's two sources that seemed relevant:
WSJ - 2019 "college football value rankings"
247 - 2020 "college football's 15 most valuable programs" -- doesn't list any Pac12 schools

WSJ lists the Pac:
  1. Washington
  2. Oregon
  3. USC
  4. UCLA
  5. ASU
  6. Stanford
  7. Utah
  8. Colorado
  9. Cal
  10. Arizona

All you need to know about the WSJ list is they also have Arkansas, Michigan State, Iowa and South Carolina ahead of USC. Laughable.

USC is easily the biggest brand name in the Pac12, don't overthink this.
 

Jalapeno

SUN BOWL OR BUST
Club Member
Colorado will now border a SEC state plus Boulder would be the second southernmost B1G member (not counting anyone else) if we were already there.
 

Creebuzz

Survives on seaweed and Natty Boh.
Club Member
I know there is zero chance of this happening so don’t hit me with the replies but how ****ing awesome would it be free ACC came in and raided Florida and Georgia in a year lol?
Throw in Notre Dame and a return of Maryland and that conference would be awesome in a lot of sports.
 

hokiehead

Gobbler on the Mountain!
Club Member
Random lists drawn up by folks to get some content =/ data

And I`d stop posting lists than have Utah over CU in this discussion. The only thing Utah has over us is recent on-field success.
The WSJ rankings are bass on 5 year revenue figures, the Forbes on profit. You're being disingenuous calling them "random"
 

Jens1893

Moderator
Club Member
Junta Member
The WSJ rankings are bass on 5 year revenue figures, the Forbes on profit. You're being disingenuous calling them "random"

Don't you believe that maybe such information is kinda important and should have been provided initially?

Going by that Texas A&M is way above Alabama because A&M's donations have gone through the roof since they switched conferences.
 

Liver

modded mod
Club Member
Junta Member
early in this thread, someone posted the raw ratings numbers for the b12 and honestly that spooked me pretty good. without ou and texasssss, b12 games don't draw meaningfully more eyeballs than good g5 games.

if we postulate that raw viewership is the key metric in the world of streaming and the next round of tv contracts, i don't love our prospects.

footprint, time zones, growing markets and populations.... these all matter, but remember that population growth in the west is from transplants who bring their sports loyalties with them.

i live in nocal and i stream the Broncs, the Buffs, and the Dodgers, my 3 favorite teams since i was a kid.

at some point, we are going to need the university presidents to decide that there are some factors beyond eyeballs that matter to the formation and maintenance of a college football conference. i think the p12 and even the b10 care some. whether it is enough to keep us relevant remains to be seen.

also, honestly, if it does become an sec based 32 team mega conference, it would suck to be left out, but i am not sure whatever that thing is resembles college football and what i like about college football. i don't watch farm teams / development leagues in other sports so why would i watch the sec?
 

skibum

Did not pee on the Alamo.
Club Member
like I posted above, I'm open minded to new data. I may be incorrect, but everything I see outside of this board reinforces my perception that USC is over-valued on Allbuffs.

here's a different take, based on social media engagement


not sure I agree, but regardless, brand recognition != brand value (but I suspect there's a correlation)

here's the first source I found in google on college brand recognition. it is based on global recognition, so if we're only interested in US this may not be as relevant. I'm struggling to find a recognition ranking based on only US.

1. Harvard University*

2. Massachusetts Institute of Technology*

3. Stanford University

4. University of Cambridge

5. University of Oxford

6. University of California, Berkeley*

7. Princeton University*

8. Yale University9. University of California, Los Angeles* (tie)

9. University of Chicago* (tie)

11. California Institute of Technology*

12. Columbia University*

13. The University of Tokyo

14. Tsinghua University

15. University of Michigan*

16. University of Pennsylvania*

17. Peking University

18. Cornell University (tie)

18. UCL (tie)

20. Imperial College London

21. Johns Hopkins University*

22. ETH Zurich—Swiss Federal Institute of Technology Zurich (tie)

22. University of Toronto* (tie)

24. National University of Singapore

25. London School of Economics and Political Science
Some random data points:

The two east coast cities I've spent multiple football seasons in: Boston and DC.

The USC watch parties are big, very big. Several hundred strong taking over large sports bars.

The UO watch parties are about equal in size to CU's - and this over a 15 year span where UO has regularly been top 10, and CU has, well, not.

Every USC grad I know is closely tied into their alumni network - I know one couple that has attended alumni "networking events" and watch parties in places like Beijing, Hong Kong and Mexico City. I'm pretty sure UO doesn't even have alumni chapters in those cities, let alone well attended watch parties.

A couple other data points:

How many Heisman trophies are on the shelf in Eugene?
How many in Los Angeles?
When was the last time Oregon won a national championship?
How many times has USC won?
 

hokiehead

Gobbler on the Mountain!
Club Member
Some random data points:

The two east coast cities I've spent multiple football seasons in: Boston and DC.

The USC watch parties are big, very big. Several hundred strong taking over large sports bars.

The UO watch parties are about equal in size to CU's - and this over a 15 year span where UO has regularly been top 10, and CU has, well, not.

Every USC grad I know is closely tied into their alumni network - I know one couple that has attended alumni "networking events" and watch parties in places like Beijing, Hong Kong and Mexico City. I'm pretty sure UO doesn't even have alumni chapters in those cities, let alone well attended watch parties.

A couple other data points:

How many Heisman trophies are on the shelf in Eugene?
How many in Los Angeles?
When was the last time Oregon won a national championship?
How many times has USC won?
I think your anecdotes about the size of watch parties are interesting and relevant. it's interesting, however, they don't seem to correlate to attendance or TV ratings. I suspect you're correct on your suspicions of Oregon not having watch parties and alumni chapters in either APAC or MX.

How many Heisman trophies are on the shelf in Eugene?
It feels like your phrasing of this and the next are setting me up for a trap, so I'm treading carefully (i.e. <rhetorical> why did you phrase the question in terms of "Heisman trophies sitting on the shelf in <city>" instead of "Heisman's awarded to players at <school>"? </r>).... the answer is zero, but I believe they have one replica.​
How many in Los Angeles?
zero, but I believe they have six replicas​
When was the last time Oregon won a national championship?
they never have​
How many times has USC won?
noting your use of lower case "national championship" in the above, they've won a bunch of shared MNCs. 15, I believe if you don't count the evacuated one. One consensus MNC (1972)​
all time history that includes events before most fans were born are interesting, but recency is arguably more relevant:
  • I would point out that in the playoff era, USC has never made the playoffs and Oregon has once.
  • in the Pac12 CCG era, Oregon has four conference championships and USC has one.
  • the last Heisman won by an Oregon player was 2014; the last (non-vacated) by a USC player was 2004
good discussion, I appreciate you keeping it civil and fact-based; we can disagree without being disagreeable
 

hawg1

Club Member
Club Member
My PAC 12 "brand" rankings. Of course I'm biased :).

USC
UCLA
Oregon
CU
Washington
Stanford/Cal (tie)
Arizona
Utah
ASU
OSU/WSU (tie)
Is this also the order for which you see the B1G cherry-picking 4-6 schools? I don’t see CU being more attractive than UDub in the four scenario, nor Cal/Stanford in 6 scenario.
 

onealcd

Club Member
Club Member
Colorado and arizona are actually really good markets for the big 10. Tons of big 10 fans and alums in those states that you can upcharge the **** out of for your product to go along with bringing in the local team fanbases.
 

hokiehead

Gobbler on the Mountain!
Club Member
Colorado and arizona are actually really good markets for the big 10. Tons of big 10 fans and alums in those states that you can upcharge the **** out of for your product to go along with bringing in the local team fanbases.
Shortly after the last round of expansion, I recall reading that there are more B1G alums in the Phoenix metro area than Pac12 alums.

Couldn't find a source to cite with two minutes searching though.
 

skibum

Did not pee on the Alamo.
Club Member
Shortly after the last round of expansion, I recall reading that there are more B1G alums in the Phoenix metro area than Pac12 alums.

Couldn't find a source to cite with two minutes searching though.
I don't doubt you're right. Lots of upper midwest retirees in AZ, whereas Pac 12 retirees generally have nicer geographies closer to "home."

That being said, when you measure the population is important. Lots of those B10 retirees have shifted their official residency to Arizona, but they spend June-Nov/Dec (so most of football season) back in the B10.
 

chipwich

Soy Boy
Club Member
Junta Member
Is this also the order for which you see the B1G cherry-picking 4-6 schools? I don’t see CU being more attractive than UDub in the four scenario, nor Cal/Stanford in 6 scenario.
Just my opinion of how I think the brands are perceived in the country. Northing more.

I have no doubt that however this shakes out CU is ****ed.
 

leftybuff

Unreconstructed Luddite
Club Member
Just my opinion of how I think the brands are perceived in the country. Northing more.

I have no doubt that however this shakes out CU is ****ed.
I am hoping that the B1G takes CU (a little bit of a longshot), or the P12 and B1G somehow merge. If one o those two don't happen, we get a) a P12 adding the scraps from the B12, which would suck, b) CU likely ends up being the tallest midget in the Mtn. Weenie Div. along with Bailer.

The worst outcome would be the B1G grabs some combo of SC, the Cali schools and maybe Oregon and UDub, carving the heart out of the P12 the way OU/UT/MU/NU/CU/aTm departing did to the B12.
 

patebuff

Club Member
Club Member
The top Pac 12 Schools that will get invites if this were to go forward would easily be USC/Washington/Oregon/UCLA.

After that, it gets murky and just about every School has merits and warts except for OSU and WSU, who would be left out entirely.
 

onealcd

Club Member
Club Member
If you are going to poach the pac 12 there is no reason to skip over asu, Utah and colorado. Make the numbers and schedule work somewhere else but that is the only way to truly make a difference.
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
None of the above, really. Though you probably see more Syracuse gear than the others, college football hardly registers for NYC natives. Thus, the transplants just follow the teams they bring with them. The local coverage of college football is basically nonexistent, except for the Friday betting lines in the tabloids.
My impression has been that it's almost totally an NFL market. For college, I've found it just as likely to hear people talking about Ivy League as P5, but maybe Notre Dame, Penn State and Michigan. Not as true with college hoops. That's where St. John's, Syracuse and UConn come in pretty strong even though the Knicks own the town. fwiw, New Jersey is the same way with football- Giants, Eagles, Jets & bandwagon. Rutgers just "is" like Seton Hall. Cool if they're good, but not exactly leading water cooler conversations.
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
Shortly after the last round of expansion, I recall reading that there are more B1G alums in the Phoenix metro area than Pac12 alums.

Couldn't find a source to cite with two minutes searching though.
Deceptive data. The big driver of justifying the Phoenix Coyotes was the number of snowbirds living there who were from Canada or the upper Midwest. I believe it is the least valuable franchise in the NHL. You can't build your sports market off retirees.
 

MiamiBuffs

YYZ
Club Member
i think it is also likely that the 12 team playoff is dead. i don't think any conference is going to agree without understanding where all the dominoes fall.

given we are in the p12, a part of me thinks they will literally do nothing unless forced by members threatening to leave. the acc could also **** everything up by being more aggressive than the p12 or b10. and i don't see a path for our Buffs to somehow land in an expanded acc.

we live in dangerous times, but WTF do i know? i thought the move to the p12 was brilliant. maybe it will turn out that way, with what texasssss and the okies just did to the b12 but right now, it is concerning.
It was a brilliant move. Way back in 2012 when the west was THE fastest growing part of America and the CFB world hadn't gone insane yet. Now there's these oligarch drug dealers running the show, buying all the properties, pimping one conference over the rest. Were all ****ed except for the SEC because they have the most money and there is no parent org to level the playing field.

Hell, whats to stop ESPN from giving all the ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ recruits money to steer them to the SEC and insure their product?

I think the party is over. Were all here hungover after the band stopped trying to figure out where our car is and how the **** to get home without going to jail.
 
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MiamiBuffs

YYZ
Club Member
I'm interested in your opinion of which D1 football schools carries the most impact in NYC.

I've never lived in or near NYC, but my perception is a ranking something like:

  1. Syracuse
  2. UConn
  3. Notre Dame
  4. Army
  5. Rutgers
  6. Buffalo
admittedly, this is only based on perception and a maybe a half-dozen sports conversations I've had with New Yorkers (only one of whom GAF about college sports and he was a ND guy).

  1. Princeton
  2. Harvard
  3. Yale
  4. Cornell
  5. Brown
  6. NYU
Elite employees (Wall St money wagon) go to elite schools.
 

BuffsNYC

Captain Jazz Ass
Club Member
My impression has been that it's almost totally an NFL market. For college, I've found it just as likely to hear people talking about Ivy League as P5, but maybe Notre Dame, Penn State and Michigan. Not as true with college hoops. That's where St. John's, Syracuse and UConn come in pretty strong even though the Knicks own the town. fwiw, New Jersey is the same way with football- Giants, Eagles, Jets & bandwagon. Rutgers just "is" like Seton Hall. Cool if they're good, but not exactly leading water cooler conversations.

The Big East is the college BB conference in NYC. It's not just St. John's and Seton Hall--the tournament is at the Garden every year.
 
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