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Sandusky update (more evidence against Joe P)

sackman said:
Can you show me the NCAA regulation against having assistant coaches molest boys in locker room showers? As much as this situation is repugnant, the NCAA doesn't have much of a dog in this fight. I don't see where any NCAA rules have been broken. The NCAA isn't about regulating human decency, nor should they be, if you think about it. They rightly leave that up to the authorities, who appear to be doing their job at this point.
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I see your point, but that was what I was driving at in my post above. IF, the NCAA can tie this failure to report Jerry the Molester, which is a crime if I am not mistaken, to a plan to protect the FB team or AD, then that would be lack of institutional control to me. That seems to be the gist of the Freeh report as I understand it. Why would it be different if one coach was dealing drugs and the school found out and covered it up because he was a good recruiter? Not much of a difference there. It is the cover up that kills PSU. If there was no coverup, then I would agree with you, just go hang Jerry the Molester and call it a day. Unfortunately, the institution chose to protect the molester so the AD wouldn't get a black eye.
 
leftybuff said:
I see your point, but that was what I was driving at in my post above. IF, the NCAA can tie this failure to report Jerry the Molester, which is a crime if I am not mistaken, to a plan to protect the FB team or AD, then that would be lack of institutional control to me. That seems to be the gist of the Freeh report as I understand it. Why would it be different if one coach was dealing drugs and the school found out and covered it up because he was a good recruiter? Not much of a difference there. It is the cover up that kills PSU. If there was no coverup, then I would agree with you, just go hang Jerry the Molester and call it a day. Unfortunately, the institution chose to protect the molester so the AD wouldn't get a black eye.
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Probably the most similar situation to this regarding the NCAA's purview and jusrisdiction is illustrated by the whole Baylor basketball scandal. Despite having one player murder another, the coach attempting to cover it up and frame the deceased player as a drug dealer who ran with the wrong company, etc., it wasn't for that that Baylor was sanctioned. It was for recruiting violations, impermissible benefits, and "lack of institutional control" regarding those violations.

The murder was left to the courts to handle.
 
L Buff said:
Probably the most similar situation to this regarding the NCAA's purview and jusrisdiction is illustrated by the whole Baylor basketball scandal. Despite having one player murder another, the coach attempting to cover it up and frame the deceased player as a drug dealer who ran with the wrong company, etc., it wasn't for that that Baylor was sanctioned. It was for recruiting violations, impermissible benefits, and "lack of institutional control" regarding those violations.

The murder was left to the courts to handle.
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I always thought the criminal stuff was part of the Baylor sanctions...I didn't know it wasn't. Interesting. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
 
May stated the situation well.

I still remember the days when this stuff first came out when Matt Millen, a PSU alum and huge supporter of the program as well as a board member for Second Mile was being interviewed on ESPN. He started out supportive of Paterno and PSU but you could see him slowly change as he was thinking about what he was saying. At one point in the interview a question was asked that referred to his kids and you could see as Millen was processing that through his mind he got angrier and angrier. At one point I thought he was going to literally get sick on live TV.

http://deadspin.com/5857515/matt-mi...protect-our-kids-we-as-a-society-are-pathetic

If you can sicken somebody who is as big a supporter as Millen you have gone well over the edge.

Unfortunately in the interview he was still faithful to Paterno, I wonder how he would respond now that more information has come out showing that Paterno could have stopped it and instead stopped it from being stopped.
 
MtnBuff said:
May stated the situation well.

I still remember the days when this stuff first came out when Matt Millen, a PSU alum and huge supporter of the program as well as a board member for Second Mile was being interviewed on ESPN. He started out supportive of Paterno and PSU but you could see him slowly change as he was thinking about what he was saying. At one point in the interview a question was asked that referred to his kids and you could see as Millen was processing that through his mind he got angrier and angrier. At one point I thought he was going to literally get sick on live TV.

http://deadspin.com/5857515/matt-mi...protect-our-kids-we-as-a-society-are-pathetic

If you can sicken somebody who is as big a supporter as Millen you have gone well over the edge.

Unfortunately in the interview he was still faithful to Paterno, I wonder how he would respond now that more information has come out showing that Paterno could have stopped it and instead stopped it from being stopped.
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Well ... he's been all over ESPN.com and ESPN radio this morning. Mostly it was "That's not the Joe Paterno I knew" kind of crap. :rolling_eyes:
 
L Buff said:
Well ... he's been all over ESPN.com and ESPN radio this morning. Mostly it was "That's not the Joe Paterno I knew" kind of crap. :rolling_eyes:
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Which is exactly why Penn State has to be hammered and hammered hard in this situation. They still have lots of people who want to believe that this was "not representative" of what PSU stood for. That now that Sandusky and a few others are gone everything is fine again.

There is an ingrained culture in these situations that has to be shook up for real change to happen.
 
sackman said:
Can you show me the NCAA regulation against having assistant coaches molest boys in locker room showers? As much as this situation is repugnant, the NCAA doesn't have much of a dog in this fight. I don't see where any NCAA rules have been broken. The NCAA isn't about regulating human decency, nor should they be, if you think about it. They rightly leave that up to the authorities, who appear to be doing their job at this point.
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NCAA Bylaw 10.1 — Unethical Conduct

If this doesn't meet the definition of Unethical Conduct, nothing does.
 
Buffsoldier said:
NCAA Bylaw 10.1 — Unethical Conduct

If this doesn't meet the definition of Unethical Conduct, nothing does.
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Why not post a link to the bylaw?


While the first paragraph says the list of examples "may include, but is not limited to" language .... all the examples that are listed involve violation of NCAA regulations, or failure to cooperate with NCAA investigations, or deliberately misleading NCAA investigators.

I'd say that the NCAA's definition of "unethical conduct" is considerably narrower than yours.
 
L Buff said:
Why not post a link to the bylaw?


While the first paragraph says the list of examples "may include, but is not limited to" language .... all the examples that are listed involve violation of NCAA regulations, or failure to cooperate with NCAA investigations, or deliberately misleading NCAA investigators.

I'd say that the NCAA's definition of "unethical conduct" is considerably narrower than yours.
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Counterpoint: Page 2
http://www.psu.edu/ur/2011/NCAA.pdf

"Indeed, NCAA Bylaw 10.1 identifies 10 types of unethical conduct, but specifically makes clear that the list of 10 is not limited to those delineated." As you mention above, it does say that, but the letter to PSU by the NCAA President makes a very direct statement that that it does go beyond just those examples.

Either way, I say that the NCAA is, for the time being, doing the correct and smart thing by waiting in the wings. First, in order to not interfere with the Freeh investigation, or in any other state or Federal investigations. Secondly, by minimizing the amount of investigation they have to do altogether. All the other entities in play right now are doing their work for them. All the NCAA has to do is gather/rack and stack the data in order to render a judgment/penalty on Penn State.
 
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NCAA will be launching an investigantion.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sp...a-to-begin-investigation-into-penn-state.html

According to the letter, the NCAA will take a close look at “NCAA Bylaw 10.1 identifies 10 types of unethical conduct, but specifically makes clear that the list of 10 is not limited to those delineated. Among, other things, that list captures the general principle of honesty embedded in Bylaw 10.01.1, which requires individuals to “act with honest and sportsmanship at all times so that intercollegiate athletics as a whole, their institutions and they, as individuals, shall represent the honor and dignity of fair play and the generally recognized high standards associated with wholesome competitive sports.”
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Sandusky's book ... and it's not photoshopped. :wow:


1853_1320690354.jpg



What the hell was he thinking? :rolling_eyes:
 
L Buff said:
Sandusky's book ... and it's not photoshopped. :wow:


1853_1320690354.jpg



What the hell was he thinking? :rolling_eyes:
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That is unbelievable...but then again didn't his lawyer say Jerry's case was like a soap opera, like All My Children? Maybe Freud was onto something....
 
Here is where I see a differnce between a criminal act and lack of institutional control....

I see the criminal act of Sandusky as out of the purview of the NCAA. Where I see the NCAA has jurisdiction is that the sports program decided that it needed to handle the criminal act from within and therefore started to behave in direct violation of the NCAA.

I see a huge difference between the two issues.
 
Death Penalty. They need to nuke the place from orbit. The top level leadership of PSU knowingly harbored a pedophile for 13 years!!! Why? To protect the "Program" and JoePa's legacy. They let that monster Sandusky abuse kids in PSU facilities for 13 years after they found out about the assaults. They need to dismantle the program and clean out every vestige of filth. Do it as punishment and as a warning to other institutions that there are things more important than the prestige of your football team or coach.
The NCAA can invoke Code of Ethics or Lack of Institutional Control or whatever. Nuke them and if they have a problem with the the NCAA's jurisdiction let PSU take them to court. I'd love to see some PSU lawyer get in front of a judge and argue "Sure we hid that guy who was shtupping kids but that doesn't mean we don't run a clean program". I think the NCAA should set an example and take action first and worry about jurisdiction later. If someone at PSU would've done this years ago maybe some kids could have been saved from being victims. Blow the place up!!!!
 
DexBuffsteen said:
Death Penalty. They need to nuke the place from orbit. The top level leadership of PSU knowingly harbored a pedophile for 13 years!!! Why? To protect the "Program" and JoePa's legacy. They let that monster Sandusky abuse kids in PSU facilities for 13 years after they found out about the assaults. They need to dismantle the program and clean out every vestige of filth. Do it as punishment and as a warning to other institutions that there are things more important than the prestige of your football team or coach.
The NCAA can invoke Code of Ethics or Lack of Institutional Control or whatever. Nuke them and if they have a problem with the the NCAA's jurisdiction let PSU take them to court. I'd love to see some PSU lawyer get in front of a judge and argue "Sure we hid that guy who was shtupping kids but that doesn't mean we don't run a clean program". I think the NCAA should set an example and take action first and worry about jurisdiction later. If someone at PSU would've done this years ago maybe some kids could have been saved from being victims. Blow the place up!!!!
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Im with the paragraph hater.
 
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