I think you are right. I wonder who the “donors” were then and where are they now. That is the part I struggle with
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2022 Transfer Portal
- Thread starter Duff Man
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BlackNGold
Club Member
CU has always had a problem between the Athletic Department and the Academic side. I am sure that other schools have some of the same issues but it seems to me the situation is exacerbated by being in Boulder. I can not put my finger on it exactly but there is a vibe around Boulder that is unique and has an over-inflated opinion of itself. Back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s CU did have big money donors - Bob Six and Jack Vickers. Even when successful the CU athletic programs have not been embraced by the University as a whole.
There have been many situations over the years that have put CU athletics where they are today. Going to the PAC 12 with a more genteel approach to Athletics ended up not benefiting CU, IMO. Starting to play CSU in football was a mistake as it took away for CU being the State's big dog school and gave many a reason to cheer against CU. Growth of the Front Range led more and more people with little ties to the State and CU. In the 50s and 60s most of the Front Range were CU fans - people that moved here would adopt CU as their local college team. The Broncos first sold out the day after they drafted Bobby Anderson #1 in the Draft.
It seems like everything that happens to CU athletics just puts things farther behind. With the new obstacles of the NIL, transfer portal, big money media contracts, etc. I do not believe that CU has the will anymore to do what it takes to compete in athletics especially football and basketball.
I think DU has the right model - they have a few sports they can compete in and leverage those to gain traction in the community - they focus on hockey, LaCrosse, and skiing. CU dominated in skiing and cross country for years at the national level but I feel they should put more resources into those sports because recently it seems like we are falling behind in those areas but we are still highly relevant in those sports.
Yep. I tend to believe that there is an elitist attitude that is pervasive up there that basically thinks that sports is somehow beneath them. I think that our administration is a bunch of Cal wannabes.
The DU model does not work at a school like CU. It works great for them (although they still have some competitive balance issues with their basketball programs). Throwing more resources at our Ski team and Cross Country teams would do nothing other than make our football team less competitive than it already is. If the idea is to drop football, you better be willing to leave the PAC 12 while you’re at it. It’s a non starter.
Yep. Even a really bad football program with lackluster attendance and donations is still, by far, the most profitable sport in the AD and pays for all the other sports to exist. MBB is self sufficient, but they likely wouldn't be if football goes away and the University loses the Pac 12 affiliation.
The fact of the matter is, CU does not have the institutional fortitude to support athletics even to a point of mediocrity when the playing field was more level than it is now. With NIL, it tips even farther away from programs like CU. CU is saddled with a ridiculous contract for a HC that nobody else was after. The longer the status quo stays up there, the less likely CU will be a conference player, let alone a national one.
Karl’s contract is the funniest part of it all bc it’s such a self inflicted issue.
I guarantee that our fan engagement, record, and program notoriety would be better if they paid me 250k/yr and repurposed the rest of that sum to players, support staff, and marketing initiatives. No question.
Idk jack **** about coaching a football team, but get good assistants and better players with some creative marketing and I bet we could make it fun
Yeah, how you go from Sark and EB to HCKD is mind bottling.
As bad as it is can't ignore that football pays for the rest of the athletic program to exist.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
Interesting idea - maybe we find some hotshot young assistant who can be an elite recruiter and is nowhere near getting a HC job and pay him $1M to be the HC for which he is under qualified and redirect the remaining funds to an assistant coach/NIL/recruiting slush fund. Let’s try the Jimmy’s and Joe’s strategy for a few years and see if the results improve. If nothing else it becomes waaaay less expensive to dump a coach and start over.
Or….. hear me out.
We hire an old guy on the verge of retirement that no one has heard of due to his lack of success and pay him an exorbitant sum with crippling terms
It’s so crazy it might just work
This was the Tosh Lupoi for HC strategy that everyone here really **** all over. That guy looks pretty good for CU right about now
The list of people who look a lot better got much longer after this hire....
Honestly, CU has bigger fish to fry than NIL at the moment, w/r/t being able to compete with most other P5 programs for transfers specifically.
The culture around CU and the State of Colorado is not college football focused. The fan base isn’t awful, but it’s not like the south where people donate (now pay) more than they should. I know people that have about $2 million liquid and have dropped a $100,000 check to an athletic department. Personally, I think that’s a very poor use of funds, given that type of personal balance sheet, but that’s their choice. I enjoy college football and all, but no thanks.
The other problem with CU, and again it tied back to culture, is that the university does not have a kingpin donor or even a group of well-heeled donors. On average, CU alumni are wealthy compared to most universities, thanks in large part to out of state enrollment from the coasts. But a lot of those alums are comfortable, many with multi-million dollar net worths, but not really in the realm where they will write a big check, or it’s even smart to do so. Those that actually can, do not seem interested in football at all.
So, you can blame Rick George, and god knows he’s made some baffling hiring decisions, but ultimately he cannot paper over what is true. If CU finds a donor to pay a 5 star player $1 million, then Alabama will come up with $2 million.
Unless the culture around CU changes, it cannot compete under the present rules. Period. However. Should CU actually try? That’s the more interesting question for me.
The other problem with CU, and again it tied back to culture, is that the university does not have a kingpin donor or even a group of well-heeled donors. On average, CU alumni are wealthy compared to most universities, thanks in large part to out of state enrollment from the coasts. But a lot of those alums are comfortable, many with multi-million dollar net worths, but not really in the realm where they will write a big check, or it’s even smart to do so. Those that actually can, do not seem interested in football at all.
So, you can blame Rick George, and god knows he’s made some baffling hiring decisions, but ultimately he cannot paper over what is true. If CU finds a donor to pay a 5 star player $1 million, then Alabama will come up with $2 million.
Unless the culture around CU changes, it cannot compete under the present rules. Period. However. Should CU actually try? That’s the more interesting question for me.
You’re right, the donor culture in the south is insane. I know young engineers who make ~150ish and belong to a donor level club that starts at $25,000 a year.
We’ll never complete with that. Having the big spending 30 or so schools break off and form their own league can’t come soon enough.
Without a change in desire from the University and massive windfall from a billionaire donor, CU will never be able to compete in a CFB environment that doesn't have some kind of "NFL-like" model of level scheduling, salary caps, full rev share, etc.
I had the idea a while back of the University thinking outside the box, and trying to go to some PE or VC as their big time "donor" in exchange for an on going share of future AD profits. Of course that would never happen as it would take an admission from the University that they fully value football and view it as a business.
BlackNGold
Club Member
I think you are totally misreading what I am saying. You could certainly improve both skiing and cross country with money that is less than the roundoff error in the football budget. Increasing the recruiting budgets for those sports we are probably in the $25000 range. Not talking about money to cannibalize Football but rather to start getting some success in something - these are both areas that CU has won national championships in and we should try to sustain that instead of backsliding.
Fans on this board are always saying we should add baseball and we should add hockey but fans become paranoid if we throw a few bucks at the sports we have as if it would kill football - give me a break.
CU has the minimum amount of NCAA sports programs and the least amount in the PAC12 and you are saying we cannot invest in what we have. That is silly, IMO. If that is really the case then we should shut down athletics altogether.
Coach Wetmore has done more with less for too long.
That idea is already floating around, and is a possibility. Effectively, acknowledge that it is professional football, spin off the football program into its own entity with investors, and the university effectively enters into a marketing and education agreement with the spun off organization to brand and market as “The University of Colorado Buffaloes”.
I'm getting comfortable with Gary Indiana's modest proposal of a few weeks ago. Drop football, leave the Pac 12. Then adopt my idea of joining either the Big West (a Bball only conference) or petition to join the AAC as a Bball-only member like Wichita State. CU would have to add a sport to stay NCAA compliant so if Big West add women's beach volleyball, if AAC add mens tennis. Both small programs, light on equipment costs.
I'd advocate for Big West but not sure if it would want a member as far east as CU.
Having a decades long underperforming football program that has little hope for a prosperous future is a drag on the CU MoJo in general. Might be time for a big change.
If the lack of football turns out to be a huge killer for the Ath Dept financially, drop a few other sports and ditch the NCAA. I'm not sure what classification the University of Chicago and NYU are in, but they are very minor and the schools survive and prosper.
I'd advocate for Big West but not sure if it would want a member as far east as CU.
Having a decades long underperforming football program that has little hope for a prosperous future is a drag on the CU MoJo in general. Might be time for a big change.
If the lack of football turns out to be a huge killer for the Ath Dept financially, drop a few other sports and ditch the NCAA. I'm not sure what classification the University of Chicago and NYU are in, but they are very minor and the schools survive and prosper.
hawg1
Well-Known Member
Is this the time to talk about baseball and swimming?
NYU and Chicago are D3 in the UAA. They have swimming.
There are a lot of ways this could go before taking that kind of step is appropriate. A far more likely scenario, in my opinion, is that CU joins an alliance of schools who want to keep their amateur standing. I honestly believe there’s only 24-30 schools that fall into the category of winning at all costs. CU isn’t one of them, and neither are the majority of PAC 12 schools. How this all works itself out over the next 5-10 years will dictate the direction CU takes. Dropping football and going to a minor hoops conference is one possible scenario out of several. Frankly, I think it’s probably one of the least likely outcomes.
But we keep Dorrell, right?
Swimming has too many athletes/scholarships, although the uniforms are not expensive and goggles can be purchased in quantity...
Karl can teach a few classes and coach the men's tennis team.....
Literally every university has people who are concerned about academic quality and reputation. The difference is that successful Athletic Departments hand them monster checks and tell them to STFU about sports and focus on their fields of study. When Colorado had bag men, we not only were more successful on the field, we had better academics. This is not an accident. This is the sign of a quality Athletic Director. That person can effectively communicate how enhancing competitive success in revenue sports increases academic success at major universities.
hawg1
Well-Known Member
9.9 and 14 schollies.
Has more to do with the Chancellor than the AD. James Corbridge ran circles around Phil. RG and Marolt are very similar in many ways. The dean of the philosophy department doesn’t give a **** what the AD says, but will at least pretend to listen to the Chancellor.
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