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2024 Spring Camp/Summer Workouts Thread

How involved do you think he was? Analysts basically scout and give input. They are not allowed to coach players at any capacity.
Shedeur is an NFL QB who wants to stand in the pocket, read the field, and make NFL throws. The Lewis offense (timing, blocking schemes, programmed easy throws to hot reads) is designed for a QB who can't stand in the pocket and make NFL throws and for OL who can't win their battles in pro protection and run game. It's an amazing offense for G5 v G5 which can give P5 teams trouble if they aren't well prepared. It wasn't a good fit and it's not like Shurmur was going to be able to install a new offense more than halfway through the season.
 
Shedeur is an NFL QB who wants to stand in the pocket, read the field, and make NFL throws. The Lewis offense (timing, blocking schemes, programmed easy throws to hot reads) is designed for a QB who can't stand in the pocket and make NFL throws and for OL who can't win their battles in pro protection and run game. It's an amazing offense for G5 v G5 which can give P5 teams trouble if they aren't well prepared. It wasn't a good fit and it's not like Shurmur was going to be able to install a new offense more than halfway through the season.
By the time he took over, it was a lost cause. Not to mention the locker room was divided and a lot of guys were checked out.

The pastor said this about last years team and said it was a miracle they won 4 games. He mentioned they all thought they should start and pouted when they didn't.
 
Shedeur is an NFL QB who wants to stand in the pocket, read the field, and make NFL throws. The Lewis offense (timing, blocking schemes, programmed easy throws to hot reads) is designed for a QB who can't stand in the pocket and make NFL throws and for OL who can't win their battles in pro protection and run game. It's an amazing offense for G5 v G5 which can give P5 teams trouble if they aren't well prepared. It wasn't a good fit and it's not like Shurmur was going to be able to install a new offense more than halfway through the season.
And I think Lewis was very quick-passing concept based, which is a different style of pass blocking. We saw the horrible impact of the quick-set blocking schemes under Sled.

I may be over-applying Lewis’ “system” to a blocking style, as I don’t know what exactly he was doing, once teams figured us out especially.
 
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Shurmer’s challenge is to install an offense that a bunch of college kids who haven’t played together and don’t have a lot of time to prepare, can execute.

If he overcoaches the offense, which will be tempting given shaduer’s talent, it is going to be another long year.
I'd imagine he's smart enough to know that. I hope the media asks him the question though.
 
I hope you are right. “Over coaching” in football is pretty common and NFL guys tend to be the worst.

If he falls in love with his scheme, we could look really bad on the field even though we have good players.
Yep. The biggest hurdle for NFL guys seems to be dumbing things down for much less experienced players who don't have football as a full time job with many more hours per week dedicated to film study.
 
How involved do you think he was? Analysts basically scout and give input. They are not allowed to coach players at any capacity.
He was an analyst in title only. He was massively involved from the beginning and he was named co-OC part way thru the fiasco, but really, the role then was OC.
You don't have to coach players to have your fingerprints all over the concepts and architecture of what they are trying to do. The offense we rolled out vs TCU was not the offense we were running 4 games later and we never really implemented the Lewis offense.
 
Shedeur is an NFL QB who wants to stand in the pocket, read the field, and make NFL throws. The Lewis offense (timing, blocking schemes, programmed easy throws to hot reads) is designed for a QB who can't stand in the pocket and make NFL throws and for OL who can't win their battles in pro protection and run game. It's an amazing offense for G5 v G5 which can give P5 teams trouble if they aren't well prepared. It wasn't a good fit and it's not like Shurmur was going to be able to install a new offense more than halfway through the season.
It was a baffling hire.
 
The very recent videos on Well Off Media and Reach The People Media show some pretty great one-on-ones between the the WRs and DBs, as well as the OL and DL. It's definitely a step up from last season. Will Shepherd is gonna eat this season.
The season hinges on the o line gelling. They are obvious bigger, stronger, more skilled than last year's line, so I'm hopeful.
 
He was an analyst in title only. He was massively involved from the beginning and he was named co-OC part way thru the fiasco, but really, the role then was OC.
You don't have to coach players to have your fingerprints all over the concepts and architecture of what they are trying to do. The offense we rolled out vs TCU was not the offense we were running 4 games later and we never really implemented the Lewis offense.
I believe he was involved in some capacity, but I don’t buy that he was dictating anything to O’Boyle and Lewis when it came to scheme until he was named co-OC, and by that time it didn’t really matter. Team was divided, guys were checked out, personnel on the OL was terrible, and they weren’t going to implement some magic scheme that all of sudden worked.

The only thing I’m worried about with the offense is the TE position and the complete unknown there. I’ve heard good things about Smalls’ transition, I hope Hart can make an impact, and Passarello is coming back from injury. It’s not a very deep room, and there’s almost zero proven production from a receiving or blocking ability, and the offense is going to rely on that position to be successful.
 
I believe he was involved in some capacity, but I don’t buy that he was dictating anything to O’Boyle and Lewis when it came to scheme until he was named co-OC, and by that time it didn’t really matter. Team was divided, guys were checked out, personnel on the OL was terrible, and they weren’t going to implement some magic scheme that all of sudden worked.

The only thing I’m worried about with the offense is the TE position and the complete unknown there. I’ve heard good things about Smalls’ transition, I hope Hart can make an impact, and Passarello is coming back from injury. It’s not a very deep room, and there’s almost zero proven production from a receiving or blocking ability, and the offense is going to rely on that position to be successful.
Just think how great it could be to get a high-end big athlete like Smalls to actually find his spot and have the light go on at TE?

We’ve been waiting for, needing, a real threat at TE since… what…Daniel Graham? I can only imagine how great our Offense could be if we get SS a real TE.
 
Just think how great it could be to get a high-end big athlete like Smalls to actually find his spot and have the light go on at TE?

We’ve been waiting for, needing, a real threat at TE since… what…Daniel Graham? I can only imagine how great our Offense could be if we get SS a real TE.
I’m very surprised they didn’t put more of an emphasis on getting a TE after Metayer left. I wonder if the position has just changed so much that the top guys are just big receivers and can’t operate in-line, and that’s where this offense needs the position most of the time.

We’ve seen Traore and now Metayer, both of whom are receivers first, transfer in and back out in consecutive seasons once they had a chance to see how they’d be used in this offense.
 
I’m very surprised they didn’t put more of an emphasis on getting a TE after Metayer left. I wonder if the position has just changed so much that the top guys are just big receivers and can’t operate in-line, and that’s where this offense needs the position most of the time.

We’ve seen Traore and now Metayer, both of whom are receivers first, transfer in and back out in consecutive seasons once they had a chance to see how they’d be used in this offense.
This would make sense with HCP’s more old-school take on some things. And last year he had a discussion about needing TE who could really block and not just be big WRs. I recall him saying if a TE is just going to run routes, it makes more sense to simply have a WR do that, as we have great WRs and that’s what they do best.
 
I’m very surprised they didn’t put more of an emphasis on getting a TE after Metayer left. I wonder if the position has just changed so much that the top guys are just big receivers and can’t operate in-line, and that’s where this offense needs the position most of the time.

We’ve seen Traore and now Metayer, both of whom are receivers first, transfer in and back out in consecutive seasons once they had a chance to see how they’d be used in this offense.
Yeah, I think there is structurally something wrong with how they want to use the position and communicating that to recruits/transfers. I think they want a player that can do both, but those dudes are first round picks. I'm thinking they've decided an inline player that has stronger blocking ability is the preference.
 
Yeah, I think there is structurally something wrong with how they want to use the position and communicating that to recruits/transfers. I think they want a player that can do both, but those dudes are first round picks. I'm thinking they've decided an inline player that has stronger blocking ability is the preference.
I’d like to know the percentage of O sets last year that used a true tight end alignment, a h-back in a tight slot and a tight end split out?
 
I believe he was involved in some capacity, but I don’t buy that he was dictating anything to O’Boyle and Lewis when it came to scheme until he was named co-OC, and by that time it didn’t really matter. Team was divided, guys were checked out, personnel on the OL was terrible, and they weren’t going to implement some magic scheme that all of sudden worked.

The only thing I’m worried about with the offense is the TE position and the complete unknown there. I’ve heard good things about Smalls’ transition, I hope Hart can make an impact, and Passarello is coming back from injury. It’s not a very deep room, and there’s almost zero proven production from a receiving or blocking ability, and the offense is going to rely on that position to be successful.

I would not and did not see Shurmer, as truly involved until Sean Lewis's system was already in. I thought Shurmer joined the team later, maybe after fall practices started. It is not even clear Shurmer participated in the initial Oline evals. Analyst, not on the field.

Same thing with Bill O'Boyle (SL's guy from Kent State). I would not envision Shurmer stepping in/on BOB's toes until the season was well underway and then not going well (basically, the date of the demotion), although Shurmer has way more high level Oline experience than BOB. My bottom line is SL/BOB and then Prime (perhaps buying into reports from SL/BOB) severely over-estimated the Oline talent last year, plus the depth was just razor thin/non-existent. The Oline had no plan B, with or without injuries. IMO, once the film got out and CU's line woes were exposed, the offense was basically exposed and put in a box. That is what film and good defensive coaches do. Also, you can only coach up players so much.

Outside of the struggling offense, last season my biggest tell was actually the Dline. The 1st 6 games or so, they made very few plays up front, Juju Lewis was the highlight of the ASU win. As the season progressed I thought the DLine guys actually played/improved incrementally better (not saying they were great) and made more plays ending with a decent showing at Utah. Jordan Domenick had highlights, as did others. In hindsight, I don't think they got better in Spring or Fall ball going against CU's Oline, rather the Dline started short-changed and had to catch up via in-game match-ups.

No doubt, SL and Prime appeared to be a fit early on, however they were not a fit in the end. I said it last year, before and when SL departed: "I'm not sure SL played well in the sandbox with others (i.e. the other coaches/analysts)." Tough because SL had a great background and potential landing on his feet taking BOB with him. No reason for Prime not to give him ample leash last year. Arriving at CU, SL was a successful HC (G-5) with a great offense however that did not translate into P-4 offense going against P-4 defenders with a weak Oline. I really think they over-estimated what a P-4 Oline should look like. It is about impossible to adjust when your talent in the trenches is exposed.

I suppose posters can rip on Shurmer for his NFL follies or worry about uncertainty, however it is not like anyone could have even stepped-in even during the bye week, ripped up the playbook, and come anywhere close to installing a drastically different offense which worked around those exposed Oline deficiencies. Also, although DE and others were good/serviceable backs, it is not like we had the game-breaker that we envisioned McCaskill to be.
 
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I would not and did not see Shurmer, as truly involved until Sean Lewis's system was already in. I thought Shurmer joined the team later, maybe after fall practices started. It is not even clear Shurmer participated in the initial Oline evals. Analyst, not on the field.

Same thing with Bill O'Boyle (SL's guy from Kent State). I would not envision Shurmer stepping in/on BOB's toes until the season was well underway and then not going well (basically, the date of the demotion), although Shurmer has way more high level Oline experience than BOB. My bottom line is SL/BOB and then Prime (perhaps buying into reports from SL/BOB) severely over-estimated the Oline talent last year, plus the depth was just razor thin/non-existent. The Oline had no plan B, with or without injuries. IMO, once the film got out and CU's line woes were exposed, the offense was basically exposed and put in a box. That is what film and good defensive coaches do. Also, you can only coach up players so much.

Outside of the struggling offense, last season my biggest tell was actually the Dline. The 1st 6 games or so, they made very few plays up front, Juju Lewis was the highlight of the ASU win. As the season progressed I thought the DLine guys actually played/improved incremntally better (not saying they were great) and made more plays ending with a decent showing at Utah. Jordan Domenick had highlights, as did others. In hindsight, I don't think they got better in Spring or Fall ball going against CU's Oline, rather the Dline started short-changed and had to catch up via in-game match-ups.

No doubt, SL and Prime appeared to be a fit early on, however they were not a fit in the end. I said it last year, before and when SL departed: "I'm not sure SL played well in the sandbox with others (i.e. the other coaches/analysts)." Tough because SL had a great background and potential landing on his feet taking BOB with him. No reason for Prime not to give him ample leash last year. Arriving at CU, SL was a successful HC (G-5) with a great offense however that did not translate into P-4 offense going against P-4 defenders with a weak Oline. I really think they over-estimated what a P-4 Oline should look like. It is about impossible to adjust when your talent in the trenches is exposed.

I suppose posters can rip on Shurmer for his NFL follies or worry about uncertaintly, however it is not like anyone could have even stepped even during the bye week, ripped up the playbook, and come anywhere close to installing a drastically different offense which worked around those exposed Oline deficiencies. Also, although DE and others were good/servicable backs, it is not like we had the gamebreaker that we envisioned McCaskill to be.
Correct. Shurmur was not around from the beginning. I believe he came on at the start of Fall Camp. Regardless, it was Sean Lewis and BOB’s offense and their scheme with multiple guys who had executed it at a high level at KSU. There was no real reason to believe it wouldn’t at least be somewhat serviceable, but as we found out, the competition they were going against in practice every day was also not very good.

The mistake was allowing Lewis and BOB the bye week to “fix” things before UCLA and watching them come out and basically put out the worst performance of the season.

Regardless, the scheme was sound as it was proven to work at KSU, but the offense being called was not that same offense. It was a smorgasbord of mismatching schemes, playcalling and personnel that didn’t fit with each other at all. No amount of Pat Shurmur was going to fix that in the fly.
 
That would be wonderful.

I don't believe in Shurmur, not interested in the spin for him. Only results matter at this point 👉
What don’t you believe about him, though? I feel like there have been plenty of posts describing his mostly successful career coaching QBs and calling offenses in the NFL, yet you haven’t brought much on the other side to back up your opinion
 
What don’t you believe about him, though? I feel like there have been plenty of posts describing his mostly successful career coaching QBs and calling offenses in the NFL, yet you haven’t brought much on the other side to back up your opinion
I’m a little skeptical of Shurmur having a big breakthrough with SS because his biggest problem was holding onto the ball for too long and that seems to be driven by endless confidence in himself not a lack of an internal clock or the ability to diagnose a blitz.
 
I’m a little skeptical of Shurmur having a big breakthrough with SS because his biggest problem was holding onto the ball for too long and that seems to be driven by endless confidence in himself not a lack of an internal clock or the ability to diagnose a blitz.
That seems like you have a problem with arguably the only flaw in Shedeur’s game, not Pat Shurmur.

But yes, it’ll be up to Shurmur to coach that out of him, and I’m sure that is the major point of emphasis as he prepares with Shurmur to be a top 5 pick
 
That seems like you have a problem with arguably the only flaw in Shedeur’s game, not Pat Shurmur.

But yes, it’ll be up to Shurmur to coach that out of him, and I’m sure that is the major point of emphasis as he prepares with Shurmur to be a top 5 pick
As long as it’s a system built around our relative strengths, I think we’ll do great. A part of me worries too much of the play calling will focus on auditioning SS on the full NFL skill set. I hope I’m just paranoid.
 
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