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Eric Bien(i)emy's next job speculation, shut out again
- Thread starter 4BienemyTDs
- Start date
Racism takes many forms. As the vast majority of the pool of players to be coaches are black (and as far as I can tell pretty much every coach was a player at some point), I'm sure that the reason all but one team has a white head coach is strictly because the white candidates have been the best choice for each job. /s
I am not suggesting there isn’t likely some unconscious bias at play in the general NFL hiring process, but I was talking specifically about EB.
The NFL has a diversity problem when it comes to hiring coaches and front office employees.
EB has things working against him, some his fault, apart from his skin colour that prevent him from getting a HC offer.
These statements are not mutually exclusive.
EB has things working against him, some his fault, apart from his skin colour that prevent him from getting a HC offer.
These statements are not mutually exclusive.
I agree, but some of the things that are working against him are amplified by his race.
What do you think apart from his skin colour means?
I know what it means, but I think that that his skin color factors into a lot of the things that many perceive as color blind qualifications.
Put it this way: A white guy who gives the same answers, or offers the same resume, or has the same past transgressions is going to be considered differently than a non-white candidate.
I'm not saying that EB is a home run head coaching hire, but he is a better candidate than a bunch of the guys that have gotten jobs in the last 2-3 years. And I bristle when people trot out "evidence" that racism is not occurring, when that evidence suggest the exact opposite.
bigbang2
blindslighted
EB is ready to be a head coach. I don't think CU would be the right destination for him. Andy Reid has negatively impacted his career progression. He needs step outside his comfort zone, prove himself. If he can't get a lower level job like the Jaguars to prove himself, He will have to look at the college ranks.
I don't follow the NFL coaching carousel very closely. I wonder if there's a recent defensive or offensive coordinator for a team comparable to the Chiefs who hasn't gotten a HC job.
bigbang2
blindslighted
It is not unconscious, there is definitely bias. That is why the NFL have the Rooney rule. But it has gotten better. After saying that I am not saying that is why EB is not getting a shot. I personally think it is the perception that Andy Reid is calling the plays and they look at his record at CU.
Not sure I understand your comments.
How does your logic explain why the nfl went so many years shunning black QBs? The answer is white owners/GMs didn't think they were smart enough.
(and what's the deal with Kapernick? If they just want to win, he would have been hired several times)
Looking at racism and says it's something else, is at the heart of the problem.
Again, I may be missing your point.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
Absolutely. I believe 3 things here to be absolutely true:
1) Racism still plays a part in NFL hiring practices
2) There are reasons beyond his race preventing EB from getting a HC job
3) EB would not have been interviewed 20+ times if he were white.
EB is a bit like the house that’s been on the market for over a year - it’s a major red flag. Imagine you’re a GM trying to make the most important hire in your organization- do you really want to hire the guy that 20+ other organizations have interviewed and passed on? You’d have to have big cojones and feel pretty secure in your job to make that hire.
You're probably right about the Andy Reid factor. Just ask Sean McDermott. Or John Harbaugh. Or Matt Nagy.
Or Pat Shurmer. Doug Pederson. Leslie Frazier. Ron Rivera. Steve Spagnuolo. Brad Childress.
So many people not getting chances because of their association with Andy Reid.
This.
From the outside I can see reasons why a team wouldn't hire EB as it's coach. He keeps getting interviews though because the teams can point to interviewing him as proof that they complied with the Rooney rule.
Where the real evidence of racism exist is in both the fact that the players in the league are more than 50% Black and yet very few head coaches are Black and even more so that only about 10% of the assistant coaches in the league are Black, and most of those in positions that don't normally lead to head coaching jobs like RB coaches, and CB coaches.
We not only don't see Black head coaches but we see few Black coordinators, few Black OL coaches or LB coaches (both positions that often lead into coordinator opportunities.)
Further those guys who are going to get the chances to rise to HC jobs, unlike EB, tend to look and act in a way that "fits" better with the bunch of old, rich, very white guys who are ultimately their bosses. Has no real bearing on if a guy can coach but unfortunately is a reality in the coaching world and a lot of other fields.
ahoelsken
Well-Known Member
Stupid "I'm putting racist nonsense out there" but I don't want to call it that from Allbright.
EB might not be great in interviews.....but let's keep in mind that John Elway hired Vic Fangio, and Fangio didn't own a suit until his intro presser if memory serves.
The arrest record from his days in Boulder is.......30 years ago? Tell me why that should matter.
The disastrous OC stint at CU was a decade ago-Let's keep in mind he's working for the same guy Sean McDermott (four playoff appearances, two division titles, and a conference championship appearance), John Harbaugh (9 playoff trips, a super bowl title, and four division titles), Doug Pedersen (a Super Bowl win, two division titles, and another playoff appearance on top of that), and Matt Nagy (2 playoff appearances and a division title) all worked for. Andy Reid's the best coach in the NFL right now and its......not close. Sure-he's got Mahomes......but Bill Belichick had Tom Brady for most of his tenure with the Pats. He's still thought of as one of the best-even though I think we all know TB12 was the driving force behind that run.
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Nodding in agreement.
Rich, old white guys are more comfortable around a Tony Dungy than they are an Eric B.
ahoelsken
Well-Known Member
I think if Leftwich is still in Tampa when the carousel ends the racism argument becomes very, very easy to sell.
Has anyone bothered to do the research on the percentage of minority QC and position coaches in the NFL? I’m seriously curious what the breakdown is of the entry level coaching positions, and then how that translates to coordinators.
The article I saw, posted the link someplace on this site in an earlier discussion, only gave percentages for head coaches, coordinators and overall assistant coaches. I don't remember a breakout for QC positions.
It would be safe to assume though that with the overall percentage of assistants being about 10% I doubt the QC positions would be much if any higher.
The overall percentage of assistants, including coordinators, is/was 10% minorities?
ahoelsken
Well-Known Member
Maybe. Let's get one thing clear with Hackett-he was going to get one of these jobs. I'm ecstatic he got this one. His energy is infectious. Guys will want to play for him. A very welcome change after 2 years of Vance and 3 years of the Vic and Pat show.
According to the article 10% of the assistant coaches currently under contract in the NFL were African-American. As I recall it didn't break down by specific job title but made mention of a disproportionate amount of those assistants being in the positions that didn't lead directly to coordinator positions.
I also don't recall the article talking about other minorities as it was focused on Black coaches. I would doubt that the number of other minorities working in the league is enough to substantially change the percentages.
I went looking for the article and found one with different numbers putting the total for assistant coaches at 26.9% which is still less than half of the percentage of Black players. It also details how the percentages of black administrators and executives is below 10%.
link
In 2019 the league had a total of two Black coordinators, EB and Leftwich.
Even with the small numbers we have Black coaches who have coached in and won the Super Bowl. Normally the NFL is a copycat league and one would expect that after black coaches had some success the barriers would start coming down similar to when Black QBs finally broke through and were accepted.
So far though we haven't been seeing anything that would indicate that is happening.
Oh please.
Kaepernick is not a good example to use if you are trying to prove a point.
Does anyone really believe that an NFL owner wouldn't hire the best candidate they see fit that would help their team win, regardless of race? NFL owners want to win. Is there some subconcious bias against hiring black coaches? Maybe but only to a very small extent. But if a coach is impressive in the interview and wins the organization over then they will be hired regardless of race. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just playing the race card.